Warrior General Games

Originally posted by yello1
+100000000000000000000000 to promoting discussion.

Not sure why it has to be moved, but thats not a biggie.

Because we would like the Suggestion Forum to hold Suggestions (and discussions) that are not on the NGTH list. That doesn't mean every NGTH is going to be moved over but the ones that have thought put into them and could generate some good discussion will. It might spur something that is not NGTH.

+1

nvrmind

I like this idea. It would get more people involved with OCing and DCing. They could get familiar with using the DAI and OAI.
+1

Cool, good conversation on this subject. I wanted the feedback to build up before responding.

I just don't believe a mass exodus of human dots to play in this mode would happen. Building dots is what makes this game fun and unique. People who enjoy that aspect of the game will continue to do that. I see this mode as a compliment not a competitor to dot building.

If the driving force behind any change is to increase player purchasing and boosting then why have things like advanced game planning and custom play editors which don't require flex purchasing beyond having a team? Clearly there are tangible elements of this game that have an indirect but positive effect on revenue. Those are great features. Why not turn them into revenue streams for people who are looking to play a different way?

There is a player retention aspect to this as well, that is difficult to quantify but very real.

I don't have the market or cost data to say what would be a reasonable price point. My gut tells me something more than what it would cost to build a team of non-boosters, and far less than a fully boosted vanity 15 season team. I know that is a wide range, but its a starting point at least. You have people today at each end of the spectrum.

I think this should be WG's 2nd game, tbh.

Originally posted by Catch22
Interesting idea but it's not going to happen, mainly because from a business perspective it makes no sense and because Digital Daggers has always been against fracturing the user base any more than it already is. Adding another league type would do this. From a financial viewpoint, this would be a terrible business decision. If users could just run teams using CPU dots, there would be an incentive to not build players. Building players and the purchase of flex to build those players is what generates the majority of the revenue for GLB. I'm not the business guy for GLB but even if I weren't working for GLB, I would look at this idea and think it would not make business sense. To make something like this financially viable for GLB, we'd have to make the cost for owning a team exorbitant - to the point where no one would essentially want to purchase a team.

Feel free to continue discussing but I don't think anything like this would happen.

well that's just a steaming pile of flawed logic and complacency. you're right, you're not a business guy. and neither is Bort or DD if they honestly think this idea is bad for business.

@OP, since users' attention is the limited resource the admins are worried about with having too many leagues, how about dumbing the whole idea down into a league for coordinators without all the fluff of team management? Most of that stuff isn't really that engaging or particularly rewarding anyway. Get rid of the whole recruitment and finances aspect and turn it into a pick-up-and-play coordinator-only league that anyone can run alongside their current involvements without any added burden.

The heart of this suggestion is the coordinating - allowing the better coordinators to showcase their abilities independent of dot builds or differently advantaged means of recruiting (networks) while at the same time allowing other users of varying talent levels to pick up coordinating in a worry-free setting where they only have themselves to answer to, instead of 55 players and an owner to keep happy.

-Gold, silver, copper leagues, 1-and-done like Pee Wee
-All lv.79 CPUs
-Upon purchase, you can choose a team's archetypes for Offense and Defense. This will install the team with the appropriate types of CPU dots. Your choice should have a measurable impact on your team's chance of success vs another team depending on what they choose. So for example if you choose your Offense as a Pass type, it will install maybe like 50% of the dots as passing game specialists, 25% balanced archetypes and 25% run archetypes.
-You can still control individual dot tactics, or batch-edit them by position.
-Teams cost 2500 Flex to purchase, and 1000 Flex to renew each season. When I said they are "1-and-done" i mean the roster is dumped and after each season you are allowed to choose new O & D archetypes if you wish.

(does this sound too much like QuickHit? lol)
Beyond that, just coordinate away.

Pen15, care to explain your point of view as to how this would not be bad for business ?

Originally posted by Pen15
well that's just a steaming pile of flawed logic and complacency. you're right, you're not a business guy. and neither is Bort or DD if they honestly think this idea is bad for business.

Actually, I am a business guy but I was not hired by GLB to be their business guy. I stand by my assertion that this idea is a bad one from a business perspective from GLB. Those that are saying it is not are looking at if from a customer viewpoint, not a business owner viewpoint.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Pen15, care to explain your point of view as to how this would not be bad for business ?

If the requirements for success in the new league do not come at the expense of success in the current leagues, whilst also to no extent diminishing the value or prestige of having success in the current leagues, then the idea is viable and all you'd need to do is make sure the league's identity and specific properties are appealing/interesting enough to warrant the cost of flex to participate in the first place.

The OP's idea doesn't satisfy this completely, but it could be reworked to, as evidenced by this thread being moved and not locked. My attempt to make it much less time-consuming was posted above. Catch22 is absolutely right in the sense that they can't afford to add another brand-of-vanilla league like Casual and PW are, for all the reasons he stated. Both those leagues basically encompass the same GLB experience as normal leagues but with only one or two small parameter changes for each. In all said leagues you build dots, or help run a team, or do both. I would even lump Iron Man and Draft Leagues in with them as leagues that aren't different enough to warrant their own existence. The OP's idea of completely removing human players is no small parameter change, it changes the game itself into a nice little arcade mode for team management (which I still maintain would be more fun/feasible if refined down to just coordinating).

I don't know why this needed to be explained, but on the other hand I'm not surprised since the general atmosphere around the suggestions forum is administration finding reasons not to do things rather than thinking independently about how to make things work. Not every suggestion needs to be taken as if it's a dissertation in its final form. I'd like to see a bit more effort on trying to mold potholed ideas with potential into good ones from the "judges" per se; the people who supposedly have the most firsthand knowledge about the potholes and how to get around them.

Originally posted by Pen15
@OP, since users' attention is the limited resource the admins are worried about with having too many leagues, how about dumbing the whole idea down into a league for coordinators without all the fluff of team management? Most of that stuff isn't really that engaging or particularly rewarding anyway. Get rid of the whole recruitment and finances aspect and turn it into a pick-up-and-play coordinator-only league that anyone can run alongside their current involvements without any added burden.

The heart of this suggestion is the coordinating - allowing the better coordinators to showcase their abilities independent of dot builds or differently advantaged means of recruiting (networks) while at the same time allowing other users of varying talent levels to pick up coordinating in a worry-free setting where they only have themselves to answer to, instead of 55 players and an owner to keep happy.

-Gold, silver, copper leagues, 1-and-done like Pee Wee
-All lv.79 CPUs
-Upon purchase, you can choose a team's archetypes for Offense and Defense. This will install the team with the appropriate types of CPU dots. Your choice should have a measurable impact on your team's chance of success vs another team depending on what they choose. So for example if you choose your Offense as a Pass type, it will install maybe like 50% of the dots as passing game specialists, 25% balanced archetypes and 25% run archetypes.
-You can still control individual dot tactics, or batch-edit them by position.
-Teams cost 2500 Flex to purchase, and 1000 Flex to renew each season. When I said they are "1-and-done" i mean the roster is dumped and after each season you are allowed to choose new O & D archetypes if you wish.

(does this sound too much like QuickHit? lol)
Beyond that, just coordinate away.

This is the way to go - very good idea.

Originally posted by Catch22
Actually, I am a business guy but I was not hired by GLB to be their business guy. I stand by my assertion that this idea is a bad one from a business perspective from GLB. Those that are saying it is not are looking at if from a customer viewpoint, not a business owner viewpoint.
Originally posted by jdbolick
Yeah, I don't see how this would really compete with "normal" GLB. After all, Catch said that "player building" was by far the most common survey response as to what people enjoy most. Plus, with only one season at a time and no advancing structure, it's really nothing more than a diversion like Peewee, something people can already play with non-boosting dots.

I still don't see how a limited size ownership league would draw anyone away from playing GLB the conventional way.

From a customer perspective, I like the idea. It would be fun and I'd want to play it. But companies can't always do what a customer wants because it could have financial repercussions if they did. This idea is one of those. There are several problems with the idea from a business standpoint (and again I'm not GLB's "business" person so this is merely my opinion on the matter).

Even with a limited size ownership league, you'd have several issues that would arise. The main one being that it would take coordinators away from teams where a large amount of flex is being purchased. Additionally, any time you exclude people there are going to be complaints that people are being excluded.

While player building is far away the clear cut leader as to what people enjoy the most, that becomes diminished without quality coordinators to give those dots the stats that people want. If GLB were to offer this idea, it is foreseeable that the best coordinators would flock to it to prove themselves which would leave a void in regards to coordinators in the regular leagues.

The only way I could see anything like this being implemented is as a reward to customers for X amount of flex purchased and then having it be a one and done deal (so as to only make it a temporary loss of the coordinator rather than a potential permanent one). Even then, I have a hard time believing that DD would buy into it and ultimately things of this nature are his decision.

Originally posted by Pen15
If the requirements for success in the new league do not come at the expense of success in the current leagues, whilst also to no extent diminishing the value or prestige of having success in the current leagues, then the idea is viable and all you'd need to do is make sure the league's identity and specific properties are appealing/interesting enough to warrant the cost of flex to participate in the first place.

The OP's idea doesn't satisfy this completely, but it could be reworked to, as evidenced by this thread being moved and not locked. My attempt to make it much less time-consuming was posted above. Catch22 is absolutely right in the sense that they can't afford to add another brand-of-vanilla league like Casual and PW are, for all the reasons he stated. Both those leagues basically encompass the same GLB experience as normal leagues but with only one or two small parameter changes for each. In all said leagues you build dots, or help run a team, or do both. I would even lump Iron Man and Draft Leagues in with them as leagues that aren't different enough to warrant their own existence. The OP's idea of completely removing human players is no small parameter change, it changes the game itself into a nice little arcade mode for team management (which I still maintain would be more fun/feasible if refined down to just coordinating).

I don't know why this needed to be explained, but on the other hand I'm not surprised since the general atmosphere around the suggestions forum is administration finding reasons not to do things rather than thinking independently about how to make things work. Not every suggestion needs to be taken as if it's a dissertation in its final form. I'd like to see a bit more effort on trying to mold potholed ideas with potential into good ones from the "judges" per se; the people who supposedly have the most firsthand knowledge about the potholes and how to get around them.
It needed to be explained because I'd rather not assume something that is wrong. You could be focusing on something and I could be looking at something entirely different.

My only issue here is that people already complain that there are not enough coordinators for regular leagues, if new leagues came that drew coordinators away from the already existing leagues, the talent would be stretched even further, which could lead to repercussions on the already existing leagues. Do you not agree ?