Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Catch22
NFL PR average last season was 9.74
NFL KR average last season was 23.47

WL PR average this season is 12.24
WL KR average this season is 23.78

Seems about right.

As I stated previously when we made changes to how returns worked, the days of returners scoring 1 TD a game or every other game are gone and we have no plans on making any changes to the code unless something is bugged (and by bugged, I mean not working within the confines of our code).

I so much agree and am SO glad, really. Even as a ST coach I felt (and still feel sometimes) there are TOO many returns for TD's. It's so damn video game mental. ST's are supposed to be about changing field position much MORE than about scoring. Scoring is a bonus you get for great ST play. But pinning the other team deep... getting team great field position... these are the main ST goals for most (real) football teams.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Originally posted by tpaterniti

Returns are bad. They are not even an issue any more for STs Coordinators. I wish they would address ST blocking because I believe that is the main issue. No matter how well you build STOP blockers, they can't really block worth anything. Having said that I doubt that anything major will be changed about this game for a while.

Agreed. It just seems like the developers don't give a shit about the game anymore and are fine with a huge portion of the game being completely broken. They might as well just have STs be random like FGs used to be and let us focus on building dots that can actually affect the game.

while i agree returns are bad, pls dont do random

I don't see any major changes to the game coming. Special teams blocking has been crap since season 25. Players built to block are being eluded by players built to FF. The meta game doesn't exist as between STs players.

Break block + make tackle builds should be the ones with the most effectiveness on STs, but may still be subject to fakes.
Break block + avoid fake builds should be solid, but may miss tackles on the better break tackle returners.
Make tackle + avoid fake builds should get the returner, so long as they aren't blocked by someone with multiple hold block
Pieces.

The way the sim is now, you can build a make tackle/FF build that is unblockable and is rarely ever faked out.

Still, the changes won't come, so I'm going to stop asking for them.

I think the worst part is that dots built to make tackles and force fumbles are blocking about as well as dots built to block on special teams (speed/strength/agility/blocking + hold block AEQs).

Originally posted by Timetoshine-Metta
just sit back and wait for the less popular game about a less popular sport to be made

inb4dodgeball

Originally posted by jampysos
inb4dodgeball
2late4U

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I so much agree and am SO glad, really. Even as a ST coach I felt (and still feel sometimes) there are TOO many returns for TD's. It's so damn video game mental. ST's are supposed to be about changing field position much MORE than about scoring. Scoring is a bonus you get for great ST play. But pinning the other team deep... getting team great field position... these are the main ST goals for most (real) football teams.

You need to learn to read. ST TDs per return were lower for GLB compared to the NLF prior to the nerf. The reason total ST TDs were higher was because GLB has many more plays per game, not because STs were overpowered in comparison. If they wanted to decrease the ST TDs, they should have decreased the total number of ST plays; they shouldn't have nerfed STs so that they are inconsequential. You are exhibiting the same ignorance catch and the rest of the GLB brass exhibited when they nerfed STs in the first place.

Originally posted by Time Trial
I don't see any major changes to the game coming. Special teams blocking has been crap since season 25. Players built to block are being eluded by players built to FF. The meta game doesn't exist as between STs players.

Break block + make tackle builds should be the ones with the most effectiveness on STs, but may still be subject to fakes.
Break block + avoid fake builds should be solid, but may miss tackles on the better break tackle returners.
Make tackle + avoid fake builds should get the returner, so long as they aren't blocked by someone with multiple hold block
Pieces.

The way the sim is now, you can build a make tackle/FF build that is unblockable and is rarely ever faked out.

Still, the changes won't come, so I'm going to stop asking for them.

Actualy returns are quite good at faking out tacklers, it just never matters because while you fake 1 there is usually 2-3 other ones sitting right there to make the tackle.The returner we have does sick fakes, but he's always tackled right afterwards.

Originally posted by Catch22
NFL PR average last season was 9.74
NFL KR average last season was 23.47

WL PR average this season is 12.24
WL KR average this season is 23.78

Seems about right.

As I stated previously when we made changes to how returns worked, the days of returners scoring 1 TD a game or every other game are gone and we have no plans on making any changes to the code unless something is bugged (and by bugged, I mean not working within the confines of our code).

The average is fine, it is the TDs that are low.

NFL KR TDs last season: 23
WL projected KR TDs this season: 16

NFL PR TDs last season: 17
WL Projected PR TDs this season: 14

But consider:

NFL Average Punt Return Attempts per PR: 27
GLB Average Punt Return Attempts per PR: 76

NFL Average Kickoff Attempts per KR: 52
GLB Average Kickoff Attempts per KR: 71

So if you correct for the fact that GLB PRs and KRs get a lot more opportunities than NFL PRs and KRs it looks more like this:

NFL PR TDs last season: 48 (corrected for attempts)
WL projected PR TDs this season: 14

NFL KR TDs last season: 31 (corrected for attempts)
WL projected KR TDs this season: 16

And of course it's not just about the numbers. If we get realistic type numbers but from not very good sim mechanics that is not good. If scores are too high we could make it so WRs drop 70% of all passes, but even if that lowered scores to realistic NFL numbers it would be difficult to say in all honesty that such a sim were working well or high quality. If scores were too low we could increase the chance that defenders get faked by WRs no matter how well they are built and that would certainly increase scores. But even if this increased them to realistic NFL levels it would be difficult to say in good conscience that the product was of a high quality. In short, I am saying that it is not just the end result that matters, but how we get there as well, and I know it would be a straw man to suggest that you do not believe this also to some degree.

Originally posted by tpaterniti
The average is fine, it is the TDs that are low.

NFL KR TDs last season: 23
WL projected KR TDs this season: 16

NFL PR TDs last season: 17
WL Projected PR TDs this season: 14

But consider:

NFL Average Punt Return Attempts per PR: 27
GLB Average Punt Return Attempts per PR: 76

NFL Average Kickoff Attempts per KR: 52
GLB Average Kickoff Attempts per KR: 71

So if you correct for the fact that GLB PRs and KRs get a lot more opportunities than NFL PRs and KRs it looks more like this:

NFL PR TDs last season: 48 (corrected for attempts)
WL projected PR TDs this season: 14

NFL KR TDs last season: 31 (corrected for attempts)
WL projected KR TDs this season: 16

And of course it's not just about the numbers. If we get realistic type numbers but from not very good sim mechanics that is not good. If scores are too high we could make it so WRs drop 70% of all passes, but even if that lowered scores to realistic NFL numbers it would be difficult to say in all honesty that such a sim were working well or high quality. If scores were too low we could increase the chance that defenders get faked by WRs no matter how well they are built and that would certainly increase scores. But even if this increased them to realistic NFL levels it would be difficult to say in good conscience that the product was of a high quality. In short, I am saying that it is not just the end result that matters, but how we get there as well, and I know it would be a straw man to suggest that you do not believe this also to some degree.

tpat in tha house.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
You need to learn to read. ST TDs per return were lower for GLB compared to the NLF prior to the nerf. The reason total ST TDs were higher was because GLB has many more plays per game, not because STs were overpowered in comparison. If they wanted to decrease the ST TDs, they should have decreased the total number of ST plays; they shouldn't have nerfed STs so that they are inconsequential. You are exhibiting the same ignorance catch and the rest of the GLB brass exhibited when they nerfed STs in the first place.

I'm having a hard time with this because, while a NFL returner might have MAYBE 20 to 30 total returns for TD's in his career... there are returners in GLB (my own included) that can hit that number in a single season. I suspect what I might not factor in is how much you all are nerfing (or not even considering at all) return TD's in blowout games (mostly against CPU teams). Please understand I'm not saying you're wrong... and what Tpat posted above sure shows the numbers much better... but it's a hard concept to grasp.
Against competitive teams, most of the time everything seems about right. Some good returns... some not so much so... and an occasional TD.

The blocking never seems right, as has been mentioned by others, building make tackle/FF gunners is a no brainer bc you have nothing to lose by doing so. This has other consequences, for example, top notch builders tend to build their returners now more to avoid fumbling than to get returns because it just doesn't pay to build for returns. There is also the issue of the disparity between very good and average teams. Take a WL returner who gets 1 or 2 returns in a season and drop him into regional pro and he'll probably get 10-15 because some teams there have horrible STs setups or just don't know what they are doing at all.

In general though GLB games are longer than NFL games (in terms of plays) - I'd say 15-20% longer so you should expect about that percentage of increase in stats for GLB as compared to the NFL.

Originally posted by CyberNinja
No, he has the best returners in the game, the sim is broken

Yeah dude, how did you miss his super factual custom user notes????

"I own the best BTE ever to play the game and the best KR/PR with the best season ever in WL history."

lolz

Originally posted by tpaterniti
The blocking never seems right, as has been mentioned by others, building make tackle/FF gunners is a no brainer bc you have nothing to lose by doing so. This has other consequences, for example, top notch builders tend to build their returners now more to avoid fumbling than to get returns because it just doesn't pay to build for returns. There is also the issue of the disparity between very good and average teams. Take a WL returner who gets 1 or 2 returns in a season and drop him into regional pro and he'll probably get 10-15 because some teams there have horrible STs setups or just don't know what they are doing at all.

In general though GLB games are longer than NFL games (in terms of plays) - I'd say 15-20% longer so you should expect about that percentage of increase in stats for GLB as compared to the NFL.

Thanks Tpat for the info.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I'm having a hard time with this because, while a NFL returner might have MAYBE 20 to 30 total returns for TD's in his career... there are returners in GLB (my own included) that can hit that number in a single season. I suspect what I might not factor in is how much you all are nerfing (or not even considering at all) return TD's in blowout games (mostly against CPU teams). Please understand I'm not saying you're wrong... and what Tpat posted above sure shows the numbers much better... but it's a hard concept to grasp.
Against competitive teams, most of the time everything seems about right. Some good returns... some not so much so... and an occasional TD.

I guess I should say that I'm talking about WL returners. As tpat stated, a top returner can get high numbers of TDs in lower leagues because the dots there just aren't as good or there is no dedication to STs on those teams. If we look at WL returners (pro might work now after condensing the leagues), they were already getting fewer TDs per touch than NFL returners.

Originally posted by qjam6
Yeah dude, how did you miss his super factual custom user notes????

"I own the best BTE ever to play the game and the best KR/PR with the best season ever in WL history."

lolz


Who is this chump?