Originally posted by O' HappyCow
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Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Second Wind and Slow Starter
Originally posted by ezra_
Dahman makes dots with low stamina if i remember correctly, so SW is legit for him. It does help a defense a lot in the secondary.
I am not totally sold on slow starter. It makes sense but it is a giant OAI pain in the ass, making the game less fun.
You might think you can come up with a great OAI that will minimize slow starter's negative impact and maximize it's benefits later in the game, but having tried this extensively I just could never make it work. I tried safer plays, I tried to run it to kill clock, but nothing worked. Now we had many players on offense with it, not just the QB so maybe it would work better with just the QB. The only time I got any kind of team wide Slow Starter strategy to work was when our dots were in their 50s because we would just pound people and control the ball 40 minutes a game.
Dahman makes dots with low stamina if i remember correctly, so SW is legit for him. It does help a defense a lot in the secondary.
I am not totally sold on slow starter. It makes sense but it is a giant OAI pain in the ass, making the game less fun.
You might think you can come up with a great OAI that will minimize slow starter's negative impact and maximize it's benefits later in the game, but having tried this extensively I just could never make it work. I tried safer plays, I tried to run it to kill clock, but nothing worked. Now we had many players on offense with it, not just the QB so maybe it would work better with just the QB. The only time I got any kind of team wide Slow Starter strategy to work was when our dots were in their 50s because we would just pound people and control the ball 40 minutes a game.
Pwned
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If you are planning to come back every game or need a boost in the 4th quarter, stop sucking so bad in the first three quarters.
Time Trial
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Originally posted by bhall43
Ya that would be super cool. If you knew when that dot was hot and cold. The fact that you never know makes this incredibly stupid.
Auto adjust.
Ya that would be super cool. If you knew when that dot was hot and cold. The fact that you never know makes this incredibly stupid.
Auto adjust.
bhall43
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Originally posted by Time Trial
Auto adjust.
by the time you adjusted your game...the other team with 55 guys at 15 streaky/slow starter were already kicking your ass.
Auto adjust.
by the time you adjusted your game...the other team with 55 guys at 15 streaky/slow starter were already kicking your ass.
Time Trial
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Originally posted by bhall43
by the time you adjusted your game...the other team with 55 guys at 15 streaky/slow starter were already kicking your ass.
Except that the extra 28 VP I had were still useful.
I used 15 points in the positions where it mattered to almost always have a good game, like on a QB.
15 points in slow starter is wasteful IMO. You get 15 minutes for 1 point and then 30 secs for each additional point. Those 14 VPs can always be used somewhere else to make your dot better in 4 quarters.
by the time you adjusted your game...the other team with 55 guys at 15 streaky/slow starter were already kicking your ass.
Except that the extra 28 VP I had were still useful.
I used 15 points in the positions where it mattered to almost always have a good game, like on a QB.
15 points in slow starter is wasteful IMO. You get 15 minutes for 1 point and then 30 secs for each additional point. Those 14 VPs can always be used somewhere else to make your dot better in 4 quarters.
Originally posted by Time Trial
Auto adjust.
I tried but bhall is right. And when you play tough teams every game you go in thinking, ok we'll run clock in the first qtr then pass more later. Unfortunately if most of your offense has SS that plan will never work. It will be 1 yd run on 1st down then 2 yd run on 2nd 3rd and 7 or pass on 2nd and 3rd which does the opposite of what you were intending. At pro or better trying to play an opponent at -5% of your attributes means that during that time you are going to get hammered or at the very least it will put your offense in such a funk due to a morale spiral that you will struggle all game long. Maybe a better OC than me could make it work though. I'm not the greatest OC.
Auto adjust.
I tried but bhall is right. And when you play tough teams every game you go in thinking, ok we'll run clock in the first qtr then pass more later. Unfortunately if most of your offense has SS that plan will never work. It will be 1 yd run on 1st down then 2 yd run on 2nd 3rd and 7 or pass on 2nd and 3rd which does the opposite of what you were intending. At pro or better trying to play an opponent at -5% of your attributes means that during that time you are going to get hammered or at the very least it will put your offense in such a funk due to a morale spiral that you will struggle all game long. Maybe a better OC than me could make it work though. I'm not the greatest OC.
Edited by tpaterniti on Feb 20, 2013 16:05:44
bhall43
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Originally posted by Time Trial
Except that the extra 28 VP I had were still useful.
I used 15 points in the positions where it mattered to almost always have a good game, like on a QB.
15 points in slow starter is wasteful IMO. You get 15 minutes for 1 point and then 30 secs for each additional point. Those 14 VPs can always be used somewhere else to make your dot better in 4 quarters.
I didn't have to read beyond your first line...the fact that you think 1 in Streaky was great in order to give 14 more VA's to someone at that time already shows me what I am working with. There is a reason the top end of the game is what it was. And it is because people couldn't come to grips with reality.
Except that the extra 28 VP I had were still useful.
I used 15 points in the positions where it mattered to almost always have a good game, like on a QB.
15 points in slow starter is wasteful IMO. You get 15 minutes for 1 point and then 30 secs for each additional point. Those 14 VPs can always be used somewhere else to make your dot better in 4 quarters.
I didn't have to read beyond your first line...the fact that you think 1 in Streaky was great in order to give 14 more VA's to someone at that time already shows me what I am working with. There is a reason the top end of the game is what it was. And it is because people couldn't come to grips with reality.
bhall43
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I have spent too many seasons trying to reason with agents over their VA choices...people choose the worst VA setups ever...it is the reason i finally just started telling people my VA's...at some point you just have to say holy fuck the FA pool sucks dick and it isn't because the builds themselves suck...its why i laugh at people wanted a silly 15 VA reset....that leaves no room for shit...i cant change most shit to average in that and i certainly dont want someones shit to try and churn into gold 3 seasons from now.
Originally posted by bhall43
I have spent too many seasons trying to reason with agents over their VA choices...people choose the worst VA setups ever...it is the reason i finally just started telling people my VA's...at some point you just have to say holy fuck the FA pool sucks dick and it isn't because the builds themselves suck...its why i laugh at people wanted a silly 15 VA reset....that leaves no room for shit...i cant change most shit to average in that and i certainly dont want someones shit to try and churn into gold 3 seasons from now.
Yeah, it's bad. I agree. When you add in my own stupid ideas that change from season to season, it's a cluster f$$k. I am quite serious about my errors too. I don't do stuff like tell them to get terrible VAs that are useless, but it took me a long time to understand a unified O line, or stacks that apply solely to how you use the dot. Pure cover guys need pure cover VAs, not some sort of mish mash of tackling, cover, late game, vision etc.
I have spent too many seasons trying to reason with agents over their VA choices...people choose the worst VA setups ever...it is the reason i finally just started telling people my VA's...at some point you just have to say holy fuck the FA pool sucks dick and it isn't because the builds themselves suck...its why i laugh at people wanted a silly 15 VA reset....that leaves no room for shit...i cant change most shit to average in that and i certainly dont want someones shit to try and churn into gold 3 seasons from now.
Yeah, it's bad. I agree. When you add in my own stupid ideas that change from season to season, it's a cluster f$$k. I am quite serious about my errors too. I don't do stuff like tell them to get terrible VAs that are useless, but it took me a long time to understand a unified O line, or stacks that apply solely to how you use the dot. Pure cover guys need pure cover VAs, not some sort of mish mash of tackling, cover, late game, vision etc.
Originally posted by tpaterniti
You might think you can come up with a great OAI that will minimize slow starter's negative impact and maximize it's benefits later in the game, but having tried this extensively I just could never make it work. I tried safer plays, I tried to run it to kill clock, but nothing worked. Now we had many players on offense with it, not just the QB so maybe it would work better with just the QB. The only time I got any kind of team wide Slow Starter strategy to work was when our dots were in their 50s because we would just pound people and control the ball 40 minutes a game.
I use it across the defense in casual pro. I put one in it on everyone. We always have a top D and don't lose late often, but we only win silver.
It's a must on QB, especially when you get into the top level of a regular league. Beyond that, there are ways to skin a cat late in a game.
The main issue I have with it on defense is if you get torched early and it's 21-0 or whatever, your OAI has to be pretty detailed to not deviate from the initial plan. The trailing by 21 or whatever inputs (as a random example) can make it a train wreck. Let's say you can run on them all day, but used SS on the HBs and they sucked in the 1st qtr. You now trail by 21. Now the AI is firing catchup passes to try to get back in the game when the team needs to just be running the plan as scouted, chipping away at the scoreboard.
All of that makes my head hurt and it isn't fun. I'd like my D to look like my D early, and my O to do what I planned and scouted from the first snap. Running a lot and forcing starters early is easy. When you spread slow starter out, it begins to be a total headache.
You might think you can come up with a great OAI that will minimize slow starter's negative impact and maximize it's benefits later in the game, but having tried this extensively I just could never make it work. I tried safer plays, I tried to run it to kill clock, but nothing worked. Now we had many players on offense with it, not just the QB so maybe it would work better with just the QB. The only time I got any kind of team wide Slow Starter strategy to work was when our dots were in their 50s because we would just pound people and control the ball 40 minutes a game.
I use it across the defense in casual pro. I put one in it on everyone. We always have a top D and don't lose late often, but we only win silver.
It's a must on QB, especially when you get into the top level of a regular league. Beyond that, there are ways to skin a cat late in a game.
The main issue I have with it on defense is if you get torched early and it's 21-0 or whatever, your OAI has to be pretty detailed to not deviate from the initial plan. The trailing by 21 or whatever inputs (as a random example) can make it a train wreck. Let's say you can run on them all day, but used SS on the HBs and they sucked in the 1st qtr. You now trail by 21. Now the AI is firing catchup passes to try to get back in the game when the team needs to just be running the plan as scouted, chipping away at the scoreboard.
All of that makes my head hurt and it isn't fun. I'd like my D to look like my D early, and my O to do what I planned and scouted from the first snap. Running a lot and forcing starters early is easy. When you spread slow starter out, it begins to be a total headache.
Edited by ezra_ on Feb 21, 2013 02:19:06
Time Trial
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Originally posted by tpaterniti
I tried but bhall is right. And when you play tough teams every game you go in thinking, ok we'll run clock in the first qtr then pass more later. Unfortunately if most of your offense has SS that plan will never work. It will be 1 yd run on 1st down then 2 yd run on 2nd 3rd and 7 or pass on 2nd and 3rd which does the opposite of what you were intending. At pro or better trying to play an opponent at -5% of your attributes means that during that time you are going to get hammered or at the very least it will put your offense in such a funk due to a morale spiral that you will struggle all game long. Maybe a better OC than me could make it work though. I'm not the greatest OC.
They nerfed streaky before I ever got to Pro, but I did win five back to back gold gifs in elite using the setup.
When my team made it to WL, it was using a similar 1 point in SS strategy.
Bhall doesn't have to accept it, I've heard his views on the matter. I disagree with him, but I know how good he is at this game and how little what I think matters.
I tried but bhall is right. And when you play tough teams every game you go in thinking, ok we'll run clock in the first qtr then pass more later. Unfortunately if most of your offense has SS that plan will never work. It will be 1 yd run on 1st down then 2 yd run on 2nd 3rd and 7 or pass on 2nd and 3rd which does the opposite of what you were intending. At pro or better trying to play an opponent at -5% of your attributes means that during that time you are going to get hammered or at the very least it will put your offense in such a funk due to a morale spiral that you will struggle all game long. Maybe a better OC than me could make it work though. I'm not the greatest OC.
They nerfed streaky before I ever got to Pro, but I did win five back to back gold gifs in elite using the setup.
When my team made it to WL, it was using a similar 1 point in SS strategy.
Bhall doesn't have to accept it, I've heard his views on the matter. I disagree with him, but I know how good he is at this game and how little what I think matters.
bhall43
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It doesn't really matter what you accept. 1 in streaky on any amount of guys versus 15 in streaky on the entire team essentially with slow starter was a huge mistake. You can deny mathematics but the numbers do not lie.
Originally posted by ezra_
I use it across the defense in casual pro. I put one in it on everyone. We always have a top D and don't lose late often, but we only win silver.
It's a must on QB, especially when you get into the top level of a regular league. Beyond that, there are ways to skin a cat late in a game.
The main issue I have with it on defense is if you get torched early and it's 21-0 or whatever, your OAI has to be pretty detailed to not deviate from the initial plan. The trailing by 21 or whatever inputs (as a random example) can make it a train wreck. Let's say you can run on them all day, but used SS on the HBs and they sucked in the 1st qtr. You now trail by 21. Now the AI is firing catchup passes to try to get back in the game when the team needs to just be running the plan as scouted, chipping away at the scoreboard.
All of that makes my head hurt and it isn't fun. I'd like my D to look like my D early, and my O to do what I planned and scouted from the first snap. Running a lot and forcing starters early is easy. When you spread slow starter out, it begins to be a total headache.
It's definitely good for the D because the harder the team you play, the more likely your defense is to get plenty of plays in the 1st qtr and get the full bonus later, just as long, as you said, as you don't go down 21-0.
I use it across the defense in casual pro. I put one in it on everyone. We always have a top D and don't lose late often, but we only win silver.
It's a must on QB, especially when you get into the top level of a regular league. Beyond that, there are ways to skin a cat late in a game.
The main issue I have with it on defense is if you get torched early and it's 21-0 or whatever, your OAI has to be pretty detailed to not deviate from the initial plan. The trailing by 21 or whatever inputs (as a random example) can make it a train wreck. Let's say you can run on them all day, but used SS on the HBs and they sucked in the 1st qtr. You now trail by 21. Now the AI is firing catchup passes to try to get back in the game when the team needs to just be running the plan as scouted, chipping away at the scoreboard.
All of that makes my head hurt and it isn't fun. I'd like my D to look like my D early, and my O to do what I planned and scouted from the first snap. Running a lot and forcing starters early is easy. When you spread slow starter out, it begins to be a total headache.
It's definitely good for the D because the harder the team you play, the more likely your defense is to get plenty of plays in the 1st qtr and get the full bonus later, just as long, as you said, as you don't go down 21-0.
bhall43
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i have mixed feelings about defenses using slow starter in this age of ball control. Getting down early in a game is a trap.
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