Originally posted by rivergato
Slight bonus given on multi-train compared to single train...
Alot more than a slight bonus
Slight bonus given on multi-train compared to single train...
Alot more than a slight bonus
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > why is multi training good?
Golan
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Originally posted by jdbolick
To elaborate, it's perfectly fine if you don't want to push the first attribute to 100+ natural, yet that only changes when you stop applying skill points. You would stop at the fourth or fifth cap before moving on to the next attribute, but you would absolutely still include that attribute in four-way multi-training.
Just to make it clear, I include it in multi training myself and stop putting SP in the primary at 77, then continue to training it until ALG's will take it to 100 natural.
I haven't pushed my main skill further than that on any of my dots.
In theory you could normal/intense the whole first season, and then you probably wouldn't include the main attribute in multi training unless you want to push it to heights of 105+ natural.
Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
It's like arguing to take ~97 natural speed over ~105.
Wouldn't that be a valid and very relevant discussion? I have no doubt that the dot with 105 would end with higher SP value and thus be more efficiently built, but does that alone make a dot better than another?
To elaborate, it's perfectly fine if you don't want to push the first attribute to 100+ natural, yet that only changes when you stop applying skill points. You would stop at the fourth or fifth cap before moving on to the next attribute, but you would absolutely still include that attribute in four-way multi-training.
Just to make it clear, I include it in multi training myself and stop putting SP in the primary at 77, then continue to training it until ALG's will take it to 100 natural.
I haven't pushed my main skill further than that on any of my dots.In theory you could normal/intense the whole first season, and then you probably wouldn't include the main attribute in multi training unless you want to push it to heights of 105+ natural.
Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
It's like arguing to take ~97 natural speed over ~105.
Wouldn't that be a valid and very relevant discussion? I have no doubt that the dot with 105 would end with higher SP value and thus be more efficiently built, but does that alone make a dot better than another?
Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
It's like arguing to take ~97 natural speed over ~105.
Originally posted by Golan
Wouldn't that be a valid and very relevant discussion? I have no doubt that the dot with 105 would end with higher SP value and thus be more efficiently built, but does that alone make a dot better than another?
no, that alone does not make a dot better than another..... but it's a good start. Then it's figuring out how to still get your other primary attributes up to good numbers and still having SP's for the right SA's and making sure to have enough BT for your AEQ.
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Golan
In theory you could normal/intense the whole first season, and then you probably wouldn't include the main attribute in multi training unless you want to push it to heights of 105+ natural.
That's a completely foolish and inefficient way to build.
In theory you could normal/intense the whole first season, and then you probably wouldn't include the main attribute in multi training unless you want to push it to heights of 105+ natural.
That's a completely foolish and inefficient way to build.
ANumber1Roy
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Gotta say just when I thought I had this multitraining all figured out jdbolick comes out with some sound advice on multitraining. I've always worked the primary up to 83 or 87 with SP's after intense training it to get it to 34 before capping it at 90% training. Figured once I did that I'd multitrain his next 3 most important attributes most of the players life rotating secondary attributes out once I got them in the mid 30's range to cap. I only got 3 stars on the multitrains unlocked and put 1 star on rotating attributes including 1st primary to intense train.
I see what jdbolick is talking about with training up the primary which not only saves you SP's in the early going but also gives even more ALG's since the attribute reaches a high cap faster. I've built 4 AEQ dots that made playoff caliber WL teams in the past so my builds were no far off from some of the top builds but this little trick may bring them closer to the top builds if you get the right combination of SA's to go with it. I'm gonna try not unlocking the primary and training it as the 4th attribute in multitrain to see how it goes. Thanks for the insightful thread.
I see what jdbolick is talking about with training up the primary which not only saves you SP's in the early going but also gives even more ALG's since the attribute reaches a high cap faster. I've built 4 AEQ dots that made playoff caliber WL teams in the past so my builds were no far off from some of the top builds but this little trick may bring them closer to the top builds if you get the right combination of SA's to go with it. I'm gonna try not unlocking the primary and training it as the 4th attribute in multitrain to see how it goes. Thanks for the insightful thread.
Fmetnik
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Consider this
1st Star (10%) costs 6 BT
2nd Star (20%) costs 12 BT
3rd Star (30%) costs 18 BT
Multitraining 2 attributes = unlocking one extra gives you a 5% bonus (6 BT)
Multitraining 3 attributes = unlocking two extra gives you a 20% bonus (12 BT)
Multitraining 4 attributes = unlocking three extra gives you a 30% bonus (18 BT)
Easy and simple math really.
All you have to factor in are the good and bad intervals during your attribute training, such as up to value 34 is great training after 37 and until 48 not so great training.
1st Star (10%) costs 6 BT
2nd Star (20%) costs 12 BT
3rd Star (30%) costs 18 BT
Multitraining 2 attributes = unlocking one extra gives you a 5% bonus (6 BT)
Multitraining 3 attributes = unlocking two extra gives you a 20% bonus (12 BT)
Multitraining 4 attributes = unlocking three extra gives you a 30% bonus (18 BT)
Easy and simple math really.
All you have to factor in are the good and bad intervals during your attribute training, such as up to value 34 is great training after 37 and until 48 not so great training.
Originally posted by ANumber1Roy
I'm gonna try not unlocking the primary and training it as the 4th attribute in multitrain to see how it goes. Thanks for the insightful thread.
This is exactly what we (not just myself but other dot builders with whom we bounce ideas off of) thought also and is how I am building a few dots now. The thought is that, if you use the "open/not unlocked/free slot" for your primary, then once you get it to the level you seek (say 100), then you can use that slot for topping off other lesser skills... since your 3 "fixed slots" usually are what you assign to your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th primaries. While I know others scoff at the logic of this idea, I see the possible merits... enough to give it a go and see what happens.
"Behold the turtle... who only makes progress when he sticks his neck out."
I'm gonna try not unlocking the primary and training it as the 4th attribute in multitrain to see how it goes. Thanks for the insightful thread.
This is exactly what we (not just myself but other dot builders with whom we bounce ideas off of) thought also and is how I am building a few dots now. The thought is that, if you use the "open/not unlocked/free slot" for your primary, then once you get it to the level you seek (say 100), then you can use that slot for topping off other lesser skills... since your 3 "fixed slots" usually are what you assign to your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th primaries. While I know others scoff at the logic of this idea, I see the possible merits... enough to give it a go and see what happens.
"Behold the turtle... who only makes progress when he sticks his neck out."
Originally posted by Fmetnik
Consider this
1st Star (10%) costs 6 BT
2nd Star (20%) costs 12 BT
3rd Star (30%) costs 18 BT
Multitraining 2 attributes = unlocking one extra gives you a 5% bonus (6 BT)
Multitraining 3 attributes = unlocking two extra gives you a 20% bonus (12 BT)
Multitraining 4 attributes = unlocking three extra gives you a 30% bonus (18 BT)
Easy and simple math really.
All you have to factor in are the good and bad intervals during your attribute training, such as up to value 34 is great training after 37 and until 48 not so great training.
+1
Consider this
1st Star (10%) costs 6 BT
2nd Star (20%) costs 12 BT
3rd Star (30%) costs 18 BT
Multitraining 2 attributes = unlocking one extra gives you a 5% bonus (6 BT)
Multitraining 3 attributes = unlocking two extra gives you a 20% bonus (12 BT)
Multitraining 4 attributes = unlocking three extra gives you a 30% bonus (18 BT)
Easy and simple math really.
All you have to factor in are the good and bad intervals during your attribute training, such as up to value 34 is great training after 37 and until 48 not so great training.
+1
bug03
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I'm a builder who never unlocks the first attribute. I typically multi train until the first attribute us trained to 90. On a .5 attribute dot this normally finishes the build at a natural 100. Seeing as i enjoy trying for 4 aeq dots, 155-158 speed is plenty.
After I'm done putting sp into my first attribute i circle cap the other 3 I'm training. My goal is to take dull advantage if the training over trying to take advantage of algs. Knowing that the best value for training comes directly after the caps makes efficiency paramount.
I usually only get to the fifth attribute while multi training. For a defensive dot, speed in the free slot, unlock vision tackling and agility. Once I'm done with speed I'll switch the free slot to strength. On the day where i need to stop training to ensure enough bt, i begin light training jumping stamina confidence and sometimes catching. I also don't build defensive dots like most people seeing as i hate jumping and confidence is dumb and until very recently, catching was a waste of time... I heart my defensive dots
After I'm done putting sp into my first attribute i circle cap the other 3 I'm training. My goal is to take dull advantage if the training over trying to take advantage of algs. Knowing that the best value for training comes directly after the caps makes efficiency paramount.
I usually only get to the fifth attribute while multi training. For a defensive dot, speed in the free slot, unlock vision tackling and agility. Once I'm done with speed I'll switch the free slot to strength. On the day where i need to stop training to ensure enough bt, i begin light training jumping stamina confidence and sometimes catching. I also don't build defensive dots like most people seeing as i hate jumping and confidence is dumb and until very recently, catching was a waste of time... I heart my defensive dots
Time Trial
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SP Value is the epeen of dot building. It generally means you've got a pretty good dot, but it ignores AEQ, VP, and SAs. I believe in the weighted total SP approach to valuation is the best because it is outcome centered.
A scrambling archetype without very high throwing will always have a lower SP value because it is a 3 Major arch. SP value ignores that throwing is not the most important attribute on a rushing built QB. Depending on how he is going to be used, he may only need enough to throw a screen or a short pass, but might also need 0 throwing or 100 throwing depending on what you want to gift the DC as far as plays to worry about. If pure rusher, you are going to need to unlock a few special abilities to give the QB some tools (Spin, Head Fake, Juke at least, Hurdle if you can get the jumping, or Power Thru if you get the strength). You are going to need two pieces of fake gear, two pieces of break gear, and a not fumble piece amongst your AEQ choices. Four AEQ builds don't look as good on paper with SP value, but they make a huge difference on outcome centered valuations.
Yes: it still means you need to multi-train your primary, because the weighted SP value of your top attribute will be much higher and therefore will have a greater effect on the final number reached; however, the first ten points in Spin are going to be given more final weight than the final ten points on Agility. Each % gained from a break tackle % AEQ will be worth much more than each point of speed.
It is more difficult to build a system to evaluate based on weighted values because everyone weights each value differently, but I think you could get general consensus on the range and take the mean for general application and choose your own value for personal application (such as recruitment or VPB).
A scrambling archetype without very high throwing will always have a lower SP value because it is a 3 Major arch. SP value ignores that throwing is not the most important attribute on a rushing built QB. Depending on how he is going to be used, he may only need enough to throw a screen or a short pass, but might also need 0 throwing or 100 throwing depending on what you want to gift the DC as far as plays to worry about. If pure rusher, you are going to need to unlock a few special abilities to give the QB some tools (Spin, Head Fake, Juke at least, Hurdle if you can get the jumping, or Power Thru if you get the strength). You are going to need two pieces of fake gear, two pieces of break gear, and a not fumble piece amongst your AEQ choices. Four AEQ builds don't look as good on paper with SP value, but they make a huge difference on outcome centered valuations.
Yes: it still means you need to multi-train your primary, because the weighted SP value of your top attribute will be much higher and therefore will have a greater effect on the final number reached; however, the first ten points in Spin are going to be given more final weight than the final ten points on Agility. Each % gained from a break tackle % AEQ will be worth much more than each point of speed.
It is more difficult to build a system to evaluate based on weighted values because everyone weights each value differently, but I think you could get general consensus on the range and take the mean for general application and choose your own value for personal application (such as recruitment or VPB).
Time Trial
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Originally posted by jdbolick
That's a completely foolish and inefficient way to build.
Agreed. Though normal training between the 48 and 56 while getting SPs to cap is better value. The added BTs from normal training allow you to get the 3:1 cap faster. At that point you can unlock multi and training improvements to get your second attribute ready to cap while SP building the primary to the 9:1.
Switching between normal and multi training allows more flexibility and maximizes ALGs on your primary and secondary attributes. Because the ALGs are doubled over the first cap, and training gains are optimal up to 34 and after 48, it makes sense to find ways to train your secondary most efficiently. Since you are still going to multitrain your primary over the 9:1 cap, you can afford to take a break from leveling your primary to cap your secondary. Optimally I think around day 32 boosts permit the most days of such training. I've employed different versions of this on my rookies and I like where it has gone.
That's a completely foolish and inefficient way to build.
Agreed. Though normal training between the 48 and 56 while getting SPs to cap is better value. The added BTs from normal training allow you to get the 3:1 cap faster. At that point you can unlock multi and training improvements to get your second attribute ready to cap while SP building the primary to the 9:1.
Switching between normal and multi training allows more flexibility and maximizes ALGs on your primary and secondary attributes. Because the ALGs are doubled over the first cap, and training gains are optimal up to 34 and after 48, it makes sense to find ways to train your secondary most efficiently. Since you are still going to multitrain your primary over the 9:1 cap, you can afford to take a break from leveling your primary to cap your secondary. Optimally I think around day 32 boosts permit the most days of such training. I've employed different versions of this on my rookies and I like where it has gone.
Robbnva
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Originally posted by Time Trial
Originally posted by jdbolick
That's a completely foolish and inefficient way to build.
Agreed. Though normal training between the 48 and 56 while getting SPs to cap is better value. The added BTs from normal training allow you to get the 3:1 cap faster. At that point you can unlock multi and training improvements to get your second attribute ready to cap while SP building the primary to the 9:1.
Switching between normal and multi training allows more flexibility and maximizes ALGs on your primary and secondary attributes. Because the ALGs are doubled over the first cap, and training gains are optimal up to 34 and after 48, it makes sense to find ways to train your secondary most efficiently. Since you are still going to multitrain your primary over the 9:1 cap, you can afford to take a break from leveling your primary to cap your secondary. Optimally I think around day 32 boosts permit the most days of such training. I've employed different versions of this on my rookies and I like where it has gone.
the first part is interesting cause I am having this exact discussion in a team forum. how does normal get you there faster than intense?
can you also explain that second part in detail a little, I'm a little confused.
Originally posted by jdbolick
That's a completely foolish and inefficient way to build.
Agreed. Though normal training between the 48 and 56 while getting SPs to cap is better value. The added BTs from normal training allow you to get the 3:1 cap faster. At that point you can unlock multi and training improvements to get your second attribute ready to cap while SP building the primary to the 9:1.
Switching between normal and multi training allows more flexibility and maximizes ALGs on your primary and secondary attributes. Because the ALGs are doubled over the first cap, and training gains are optimal up to 34 and after 48, it makes sense to find ways to train your secondary most efficiently. Since you are still going to multitrain your primary over the 9:1 cap, you can afford to take a break from leveling your primary to cap your secondary. Optimally I think around day 32 boosts permit the most days of such training. I've employed different versions of this on my rookies and I like where it has gone.
the first part is interesting cause I am having this exact discussion in a team forum. how does normal get you there faster than intense?
can you also explain that second part in detail a little, I'm a little confused.
Time Trial
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Originally posted by Robbnva
the first part is interesting cause I am having this exact discussion in a team forum. how does normal get you there faster than intense?
can you also explain that second part in detail a little, I'm a little confused.
Between 48 and 56 you train around 17-22% on normal (depending on training unlocks) and 20 to 27% on intense. The extra two BTs per train gives you 30 extra BTs over 15 training sessions. Depending on your training unlocks, those extra 30 SP can buy you two SPs or one more attribute point towards capping. I actually rotate between normal and intense to maximize gains on every rollover of the attribute.
I leave my primary at 95-99% trained when I'm ready to cap, then resume training it once I am finished SP building it.
the first part is interesting cause I am having this exact discussion in a team forum. how does normal get you there faster than intense?
can you also explain that second part in detail a little, I'm a little confused.
Between 48 and 56 you train around 17-22% on normal (depending on training unlocks) and 20 to 27% on intense. The extra two BTs per train gives you 30 extra BTs over 15 training sessions. Depending on your training unlocks, those extra 30 SP can buy you two SPs or one more attribute point towards capping. I actually rotate between normal and intense to maximize gains on every rollover of the attribute.
I leave my primary at 95-99% trained when I'm ready to cap, then resume training it once I am finished SP building it.
Time Trial
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Originally posted by Robbnva
the first part is interesting cause I am having this exact discussion in a team forum. how does normal get you there faster than intense?
can you also explain that second part in detail a little, I'm a little confused.
The second part is tough to explain, but essentially involves working one attribute faster than the others in order to cap it faster. It isn't something I would put in a guide... Sometimes you just need to feel it out to know what builds need to do this.
I reach 84 in my primary and 56 in my secondary at level 19 using this method on a typical build, depending on ALGs.
the first part is interesting cause I am having this exact discussion in a team forum. how does normal get you there faster than intense?
can you also explain that second part in detail a little, I'm a little confused.
The second part is tough to explain, but essentially involves working one attribute faster than the others in order to cap it faster. It isn't something I would put in a guide... Sometimes you just need to feel it out to know what builds need to do this.
I reach 84 in my primary and 56 in my secondary at level 19 using this method on a typical build, depending on ALGs.
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