Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Time Trial
Okay, before turning to the % contribution lets look at the two QBs:

Dryst - 5,058.39 yds passing, 38.91 TDs, 5 INTs, -160.41 yds rushing, 0 fumbles lost.
Mike - 5,483.24 yds passing, 43.16 TDs, 8 INTs, -326.23 yds rushing, 3 fumbles lost.

Mike has 424.85 more passing yards, 4.25 more TDs, 3 more INTs, 165.82 fewer rushing yards, and 3 more fumbles lost.
Mike has 259.03 more yards in total, but he has given the ball away 6 more times while only scoring 4.25 more TDs.

If you go by these totals alone, as a % it is quite possible that Bort would award the MVP to Dryst, because he was the more efficient.

But, we know that the MVP formula also includes a % of total contribution, but we don't know exactly what that means. We cannot see the blowout adjusted team values without having to add up the blowout adjusted indiviual stats, so I'll show raw team totals.

Dryst's team has:
5,502 passing yards, 2178.5 rushing yards, and 2989 Special Team yards or 10,669.5 total yards.
50 passing TDs, 38 rushing TDs, and 6 ST TDs or 94 total TDs.
5 INTs and 21 Fumbles.
Additionally their kicker has scored 213 points.

Mike's team has:
6664.5 passing yards, 1471.5 rushing yards, 5806 Special Teams yards or 13,942 total yards.
73 passing TDs, 42 rushing TDs, and 37 ST TDs or 152 total TDs.
12 INTs and 18 Fumbles
Additionally their kicker has scored 268 points.

As you can see, while Mike's scoring is higher compared to Dryst's scoring, IF the % of contribution is a factor, Dryst has a much higher % of contribution to the team's and a much lower % of turnovers than Mike.

So... basically I wouldn't go crying bug, because it isn't bugged.

If you have a suggestion as to how to view this data in a way that should give Mike the MVP, you should put forth a formula or make SOME sort of observation.

I mean, this isn't my first time questioning the MVP formula, I specifically don't like that % of contribution AND blowout adjust scores are used, because it means that many players that performed far better compared to others will never win the MVP, or that those who contributed significantly to a losing team will be rewarded for the team continuing to overuse one or two players.

lolu for including special teams yardage...lets use that to formulate which Defense was better or worse and thus teams had to punt more or kick off more.

I'd like to see it more like real sports MVP awards rather than being closer to All-Star Game/Pro-Bowl awards.

1) That means each conference gets one (1) MVP--that's it for all positions (and the resulting endorsement item would be better hopefully, to match)
2) It has to be from team with at least a .500 record--how "valuable" can someone truly be if their team can't win?
3) Award fantasy football type points for every imaginable stat ( for example 1 pt for every 300 yards passing, 1 per every 100 rushing, 0.5 for every tackle, or whatever), whoever gets the most wins the MVP
4) forget whether or not it was a blowout game--this penalizes dot builders for things they can't control (like other teams' dots, the composition of the conference and the schedule)
5) forget % of team output--this just encourages exploits and poor sportsmanship

Originally posted by Gunther-
lolu for including special teams yardage...lets use that to formulate which Defense was better or worse and thus teams had to punt more or kick off more.

Because you know for sure that special teams yardage isn't included, mirite? You understand this isn't me telling you how it should be, this is my guess of how % of contribution works. Since you have provided NO suggestion in your suggestion, I'm going through the math YOU should have done before posting. Of course instead of doing the math yourself from the numbers I already provided, you tried to laugh it off by attacking a small part of the data I provided, not thinking that the numbers still work even without the special teams numbers. But I'll go ahead and show you that too.

Kickers, despite having their own catagory, have still found their way onto the OMVP top tens. Does that mean that points scored by kickers are considered part of the OMVP catagory, almost assuredly.

Even IF ST yards aren't included, I made a pretty good case for why your guy wasn't a lock for MVP like you seem to think he should be, but here's more proof:

Dryst's team:
7680.5 total yards rushing and passing.
88 TDs rushing and passing (528 points)
26 Turnovers.
213 points from kickers.

Dryst's %:
4897.98 yards / 7680.5 yards = 64% of total yards
233.46 points / 741 points = 32% of total points.
5 Turnovers / 26 Turnovers = 19% of total turnovers.

Mike's team:
8136 yards rushing and passing.
115 TDs rushing and passing (690 points).
30 Turnovers.
268 points from kickers.

Mike's %:
5157.01 yards / 8136 yards = 63% of total yards.
258.96 points / 958 points = 27% of total points.
11 Turnovers / 30 Turnovers = 37% ot total turnovers.



To sum up:

Your player contributed about the same to the total offensive yardage.
Your player contributed 5% less to the total points scored.
Your player contributed to about twice the % of turnovers his player did.

Obvious MVP choice. You had me at 'fail'.

ib4lolu4usingkickerspoints
then
ib4mehavingtorepostthatthemathworkswithoutthekickerspoints

Originally posted by RiverRat2
Really digging up some dead old ideas tonight!

InB4 - No game is broken threads!!

This. Surprised it's been allowed to fester for a week-plus.

there's a perfect example in the bugs forum right now of someone complaining that his player didnt win both offensive and st mvps even tho he finished 1st in both. (nothing against the agent because this is attempted way too much at lower levels)

he is the involved in 66% of his team's touches. he doesnt seem the logical mvp for st based on his stats unless offensive stats are thrown in. his offensive stats obviously are a huge % of his teams total points/yards.

1) st mvp needs to make sure that offensive TDs and yards are not in any way included

2) number of touches (ie averages) need to carry alot more weight that they currently do. total yards leaves the mvp races open to exploits.

3) IF % of team contributions must be included, then make sure that these 1 man teams are not rewarded just for being a mvp factory.

Originally posted by Guppy, Inc
there's a perfect example in the bugs forum right now of someone complaining that his player didnt win both offensive and st mvps even tho he finished 1st in both. (nothing against the agent because this is attempted way too much at lower levels)

he is the involved in 66% of his team's touches. he doesnt seem the logical mvp for st based on his stats unless offensive stats are thrown in. his offensive stats obviously are a huge % of his teams total points/yards.

1) st mvp needs to make sure that offensive TDs and yards are not in any way included

2) number of touches (ie averages) need to carry alot more weight that they currently do. total yards leaves the mvp races open to exploits.

3) IF % of team contributions must be included, then make sure that these 1 man teams are not rewarded just for being a mvp factory.

I'm a one man team, and even though I was nominated 3rd for my QB, 1st for my Returner, and 1st for my kicker, I spread the ball around to all of my players. I target two HBs, a FB, 3 TEs, and 4 WRs all while running the ball with a QB, 3 HBs, and a FB.

So long as the formula doesn't affect those of us who legitimately run their team (elite every season, always 2nd to 4th round of playoffs), I don't mind encroachment on the formula. Efficiency is important, and I know kick return yards are too valuable in the formula for STs.

Originally posted by Time Trial
I'm a one man team, and even though I was nominated 3rd for my QB, 1st for my Returner, and 1st for my kicker, I spread the ball around to all of my players. I target two HBs, a FB, 3 TEs, and 4 WRs all while running the ball with a QB, 3 HBs, and a FB.

So long as the formula doesn't affect those of us who legitimately run their team (elite every season, always 2nd to 4th round of playoffs), I don't mind encroachment on the formula. Efficiency is important, and I know kick return yards are too valuable in the formula for STs.


sorry, meant teams with 1 player, not teams owned by 1 agent.

from what i've seen the past few years, KR stats dont seem all that important in the formula. % of team whatever seems to be the overwhelming attribute followed by pr tds .i just cant stand when a player isnt in the top 5 in any category, yet walks away with the mvp.