Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Mango Fandango
shouldn't 120 agility and 100 jump with 8 Juke and RR not take advantage of neglected CB attirbutes? or the 150 agility DT with 35% BB and 10 SB and 8 FS should have done something against the pass? perhaps a potential PB with 150 strength and 90 carry but 77 speed should break continuous tackles until he falls after 3 yards?

these are all perhaps perhaps perhaps. GLB has killed many of the players i built with a twist. i've had to convert my possession WR, agility DT and powerback to orthodox speed first WR, strength first DT and all EQ into speed RB.

cynical? i appreciate your input in the forums MHS and you are one of the agents i admire from a distance. but i've spent more than enough money on this game to see how shallow dot building has become

high agility helps maintain speed and acceleration. But its not meant to use as 100 speed, 120 agility. Its meant to use as a support for the amount of speed you have.

Originally posted by cybergamerxxx
Umm you obviously know nothing about real football then. If it was all about 40 times and pure speed the Oakland Raiders would never lose a game. Yes being fast is important but if you're not quick thats no good, plus all the other important aspects of football (in real life).

Well...its about being really fast and talented as well. You can make a ridiculous 170 speed/100 agility guy in this game...but with 32 catching he isnt going to make catches in traffic and will likely drop some balls along the way.

Originally posted by bhall43
high agility helps maintain speed and acceleration. But its not meant to use as 100 speed, 120 agility. Its meant to use as a support for the amount of speed you have.

precisely. GLB is limiting the role of agility, jump and whatever. it's all about speed (or strength). sure everything supplements a build but what do they supplement? errrr..... speed (and strength). that is no fun... no fun at all

Originally posted by Mango Fandango
precisely. GLB is limiting the role of agility, jump and whatever. it's all about speed (or strength). sure everything supplements a build but what do they supplement? errrr..... speed (and strength). that is no fun... no fun at all

that is the way agility works everywhere bro.

One of the main frustrations is this: the game keeps constantly changing. Next season, there will probably be a nerf to the power WR and Spin, or tone down some SA/VA stacking or something. Even though GLB isnt a perfect sim, a lot of the game stems on the real world. If you cant think of a guy in the NFL that may be analogous to whatever build you are trying to go for, possibly reconsider. I cant think of a guy in the NFL that is crazy ridiculously agile. Why? Because its rarely touted or looked at, whereas a 40 yd dash is.

The frustration really stems from a lack of oversight and testing, mainly because, it takes however many people are on GLB to find the next hot thing. In the end, all the low hanging fruit will be gone and it will boil down to, dare I say it, good, solid builds and a good OC/DC.

IMO, there is a certain base amount of ever stat that is needed to be successful no matter what you do. When planning a build these are the things that I see as non-negotiable. They are the must haves of a build. From there you are free to experiment and improvise with how much higher you want certain attributes to be past the basic threshold of what is necessary. That's just the way this game is.

No one argues that WR's should be able to be successful with less than 65 catching, because it is accepted that that is a necessary part of the build. I would also say that 120 Speed is the bare minimum of necessary speed for a WR, in this game I don't think any WR should have less speed than that, but considering how dirt easy it is to reach 120 speed (62+ 58 EQ) I don't think it should be a sticking point amongst us, that is just a necessary part of being a WR... even the slowest WR's could still run decently fast, and 120 is about as slow as you should be IMO. 120 speed, 100 agi is completely possible on a WR IMO, and could easily be combined with 75 jumping and 75 catching to make the kind of WR you're talking about... However the problems for making this kind of WR mainly stem from the fact that there is no archetype where you can get these as majors and not have QC or RR as a penalized SA. Sure, you can get around the penalized SA and still build one of these, but then the problem arises that there are NO good routes for this kind of WR to run that don't just completely suck.

Originally posted by TheGreatAus
If you cant think of a guy in the NFL that may be analogous to whatever build you are trying to go for, possibly reconsider. I cant think of a guy in the NFL that is crazy ridiculously agile. Why? Because its rarely touted or looked at, whereas a 40 yd dash is. .

I knew this guy who once wore #80 on a red a gold jersey. He had horrible 40 times, but could make cuts without losing a step and made crazy acrobatic catches. I can't remember his name but he was pretty good. Even made it somewhere on that NFL top 100 thing they did last year.

In real football Agility is much more important to a WR the speed. The reality of the NFL is the difference between Chris Johnson and his 4.24 and a "slow" WR is less then a second on a 40 time. If a WR can catch and run killer routes they will be much more successful. In fact agility, hands, jumping and route running are all more important the speed in the NFL.

That being said, this is a game based on sim logic. Not real football. No 100% balanced. Someone early on mentioned Dragon Age. It's true that Dexterity is an important part of the game. However unless you are playing a Mage Willpower is all but useless. It's just the way games get developed. Perhaps this one will get better over time, perhaps not.

thus far all i have read from 3 excellent dot builders are excuses for GLBs inflexibilities and lack of ambition. meh speed = 130 blah blah minimum. the annoying satisfaction of one dimensional dots doing what GLB can only do doesn't sit well with me

typical (actually almost all WRs in GLB). speed, speed, speed. a touch of catch, jump and agility supplemented with strength and carry. maybe add a bit of vision here and there for novelty. the other alternative is speed, speed, strengh, strength, a touch of catch, jmp and agility supplemented with carry. maybe add a bit of vision here and there for novelty.

wait 2 years in real time and hey presto! a dot that's only spectacular in it's FP price tag

Originally posted by Mango Fandango
thus far all i have read from 3 excellent dot builders are excuses for GLBs inflexibilities and lack of ambition. meh speed = 130 blah blah minimum. the annoying satisfaction of one dimensional dots doing what GLB can only do doesn't sit well with me

typical (actually almost all WRs in GLB). speed, speed, speed. a touch of catch, jump and agility supplemented with strength and carry. maybe add a bit of vision here and there for novelty. the other alternative is speed, speed, strengh, strength, a touch of catch, jmp and agility supplemented with carry. maybe add a bit of vision here and there for novelty.

wait 2 years in real time and hey presto! a dot that's only spectacular in it's FP price tag

Dude I'm talking about post archetypes, multi-training, and 4 aeq when i say 130 speed is the new minimum.
It's not really as bad as it sounds, Once again I say that you can do this and have 95 jumping (w/ high jumper VA), 87 Agi, 82 catching and have room for SA's. With multi-training and BT's being switched to make 4 AEQ easily possible this kind of build can work and will achieve what we're all talking about for a short yardage possesion guy. In the sim as it stands, this build will do what you want? Why do we need 130 jumping, or 120 agility. the numbers are just numbers, and nothing else. You can achieve what you want to in this sim, I believe the dot-building environment has changed to accomodate for this kind of thing and you could probably even carve out your own niche for a dot like this.

However there is a basic minimum of every stat needed to be succesful at different positions, and you have room to experiment past these bare minimums, but without them you will not function in th higher levels of this game.

With current WR's who did not get the benefit of AT's I'd say the minimum for speed is down at 115, but the more time passes after AT's the more this number will increase (along with other #'s).

I wouldn't say GLB is inflexible, but the amount of other stats you need to make differences is a lot smaller than the amount of speed you need to make differences. For instance simply taking jumping into the 80's is enough to outjump most CB's 90% of the time. Right now the average CB has jumping in the low-mid 70's (with AT's I don't imagine that number increasing past low 80's at most), so why would you need 120 jumping, when 85-95 jumping is already winning you the rolls. Your goal is to win the rolls, not to have some massive untouchable number, a win is a win, no matter if it's by an inch or a mile. Same thing with Agi, I'll admit some parts of Agi are broke and QC/CD are making it even worse but pumping it past 110 is going to be pointless on a AT WR just because you'll be so far beyond most CB's it won't be doing you much more good to increase it further.

My goal in this game is to find the point in a build where I don't need to increase the stat anymore because I'm winning the majority of rolls, and then I see if I can get there and maintain the bare minimum of each stat. There is no reason to re-invent the wheel, everyone knows how to build a WR, and yours should still be a WR but the trick is to find a niche for him and to work on winning a few rolls but winning them quite often. I think that's the key in GLB, finding a role and building for it.

that's a wall of rubbish but you can go your way and i'll go mine. there's no point repeating the very same thing post after post

This thread was pretty funny to read.

MileHighShoes is correct, though. Getting to 130 speed is ridiculously easy and cheap with archetypes & training the way they are now.

Originally posted by Mango Fandango
you can go your way and i'll go mine. there's no point repeating the very same thing post after post

alright, I'll shut up.

Originally posted by Forbin
MileHighShoes is correct, though. Getting to 130 speed is ridiculously easy and cheap with archetypes & training the way they are now.

you haven't read through the alternative opinion: why should i get speed to 130 when i can cause a mismatch in another stat (which is viable irl or in any decent RPG). i do not WANT to get speed to anything near 130 - why should i?! that'll be the end of my contribution to this thread as no doubt another reputable agent will just fill in MHS's shoes with a pro-GLB status quo statement

Originally posted by Mango Fandango
you haven't read through the alternative opinion: why should i get speed to 130 when i can cause a mismatch in another stat (which is viable irl or in any decent RPG). i do not WANT to get speed to anything near 130 - why should i?! that'll be the end of my contribution to this thread as no doubt another reputable agent will just fill in MHS's shoes with a pro-GLB status quo statement

I see what you're saying, and in terms of an RPG you are absolutely correct that it's not working properly in GLB.


However, it is a football sim first and an RPG second. That means that every skill position dot is going to have a lot of speed, as compared to say, a nose tackle. The slowest WR in the NFL is still pretty damn fast, ya know?