I think INTs are a good place to start but when have you ever heard anyone judge a player based on their INT return yards?
General Terms
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Originally posted by Warlock
Originally posted by Cberry
Originally posted by Warlock
After the last game of the season, a list of the top 5 performers per position should be made, then a small committee should vote on the top two (per position). If you want to take it a step farther, divide the lists into East and West (3 from each, but only 2 get voted in), this will give you the pro-bowl teams.
We'd just need a couple people to compile the lists. I did it for FBs last season and it took me like 30 mins (but then again that's a tough position to gather vital stats for... such as pancakes and broken tackles). OL need something more than pancakes as the only stat, so I'd suggest using the team's rushing/passing numbers as well.
Anyways, just an idea.
I'll unbiased-ly do it for CBs.
It's all about stats, can't really be biased (except in determining which stats are most important). I'd say that order of importance should be...
1A. Interceptions
1B. Interception return yardage
2. Pass deflections
3. Tackles
4A. Forced Fumbles
4B. Fumble Recoveries
4C. Fumble return yardage
5. Touchdowns
6. Sacks
7. Safeties
So I'd take the top 5 or 6 players with interceptions (if more than 5 or 6 are tied with the same number, start breaking it down by return yardage). Out of those 5 or 6, then break it down via pass deflections. Then break it down even further by tackles... etc...
So a list might look like...
CB#1 = 5 INTs (54 yds), 37 PD, 72 Tackles, 2 FF (1 FR for 3 yds), 1 Def TD, 2 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#2 = 5 INTs (43 yds), 40 PD, 68 Tackles, 1 FF (2 FR for 7 yds), 0 Def TD, 0 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#3 = 4 INTs (31 yds), 45 PD, 50 Tackles, 0 FF (1 FR for 1 yds), 0 Def TD, 1 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#4 = 4 INTs (31 yds), 32 PD, 61 Tackles, 1 FF (0 FR for 0 yds), 0 Def TD, 3 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#5 = 4 INTs (31 yds), 32 PD, 59 Tackles, 1 FF (3 FR for 9 yds), 0 Def TD, 0 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
Just an example, but big plays = recognition, typically. This is why I have a big importance for INTs.
I would say that we really only have two options for this concept...
A) Create the player pool based on statistics, which a committee then votes on.
B) Create the player pool based on popularity. We could have each team nominate it's 3-4 best players, then have a committee vote on their picks.
I believe the stats approach is much fairer, you have to be somewhere in the top of the league leaders page to even get into the pool. It's pretty much the approach I took for compiling the FB list... the top 5 FBs in rushing yardage were included, then I threw up a bunch of other important stats for a FB (like pancakes, YPC, TDs, etc...). Obviously FB is a kind of intangible position, but if you want recognition, you have to stand out among other FBs (I used rushing yardage as the primary measuring stick, because there's not many that were even on the top 50 rushing list).
Having each nominee submit a "best play" of the season highlight is a nice touch also IMHO.
Good lord look at the big stats machine on that guy.
Originally posted by Cberry
Originally posted by Warlock
After the last game of the season, a list of the top 5 performers per position should be made, then a small committee should vote on the top two (per position). If you want to take it a step farther, divide the lists into East and West (3 from each, but only 2 get voted in), this will give you the pro-bowl teams.
We'd just need a couple people to compile the lists. I did it for FBs last season and it took me like 30 mins (but then again that's a tough position to gather vital stats for... such as pancakes and broken tackles). OL need something more than pancakes as the only stat, so I'd suggest using the team's rushing/passing numbers as well.
Anyways, just an idea.
I'll unbiased-ly do it for CBs.
It's all about stats, can't really be biased (except in determining which stats are most important). I'd say that order of importance should be...
1A. Interceptions
1B. Interception return yardage
2. Pass deflections
3. Tackles
4A. Forced Fumbles
4B. Fumble Recoveries
4C. Fumble return yardage
5. Touchdowns
6. Sacks
7. Safeties
So I'd take the top 5 or 6 players with interceptions (if more than 5 or 6 are tied with the same number, start breaking it down by return yardage). Out of those 5 or 6, then break it down via pass deflections. Then break it down even further by tackles... etc...
So a list might look like...
CB#1 = 5 INTs (54 yds), 37 PD, 72 Tackles, 2 FF (1 FR for 3 yds), 1 Def TD, 2 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#2 = 5 INTs (43 yds), 40 PD, 68 Tackles, 1 FF (2 FR for 7 yds), 0 Def TD, 0 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#3 = 4 INTs (31 yds), 45 PD, 50 Tackles, 0 FF (1 FR for 1 yds), 0 Def TD, 1 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#4 = 4 INTs (31 yds), 32 PD, 61 Tackles, 1 FF (0 FR for 0 yds), 0 Def TD, 3 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
CB#5 = 4 INTs (31 yds), 32 PD, 59 Tackles, 1 FF (3 FR for 9 yds), 0 Def TD, 0 Sacks, 0 Safeties.
Just an example, but big plays = recognition, typically. This is why I have a big importance for INTs.
I would say that we really only have two options for this concept...
A) Create the player pool based on statistics, which a committee then votes on.
B) Create the player pool based on popularity. We could have each team nominate it's 3-4 best players, then have a committee vote on their picks.
I believe the stats approach is much fairer, you have to be somewhere in the top of the league leaders page to even get into the pool. It's pretty much the approach I took for compiling the FB list... the top 5 FBs in rushing yardage were included, then I threw up a bunch of other important stats for a FB (like pancakes, YPC, TDs, etc...). Obviously FB is a kind of intangible position, but if you want recognition, you have to stand out among other FBs (I used rushing yardage as the primary measuring stick, because there's not many that were even on the top 50 rushing list).
Having each nominee submit a "best play" of the season highlight is a nice touch also IMHO.
Good lord look at the big stats machine on that guy.
General Terms
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Originally posted by shacky21
why would return yardage be more important than passes deflected? As long as they get the turnover, return yardage is gravy. I'll take a shutdown corner who bats alot of balls away and gets no picks before the corner who gets one lucky pick for a 99yd return.
The other problem with guaging CB's, is that if they always cover their man less balls get thrown their way. Less opporunity for picks, deflections, and tackles.
The best cb is the guy who has the most plays but zero stats w/no throws to his side of the field.
why would return yardage be more important than passes deflected? As long as they get the turnover, return yardage is gravy. I'll take a shutdown corner who bats alot of balls away and gets no picks before the corner who gets one lucky pick for a 99yd return.
The other problem with guaging CB's, is that if they always cover their man less balls get thrown their way. Less opporunity for picks, deflections, and tackles.
The best cb is the guy who has the most plays but zero stats w/no throws to his side of the field.
Warlock
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Originally posted by sabresandkane
I think INTs are a good place to start but when have you ever heard anyone judge a player based on their INT return yards?
It's not the first thing people look for, but if you have two guys that both have 10 INTs, how would you judge the better interceptor (or play-maker)? I'd go off of return yardage.
General Terms,
Unfortunately, judging shutdown corners is a hard feat to accomplish (at least in this game). I don't want to break down all the stats necessary to accurately determine it (like analysts for the NFL do), but you're more than welcome to break it down if you feel that strongly on the subject. I sure and hell, am not going to individually view every CB in the league for # of plays vs. compilation of defensive stats.
I think INTs are a good place to start but when have you ever heard anyone judge a player based on their INT return yards?
It's not the first thing people look for, but if you have two guys that both have 10 INTs, how would you judge the better interceptor (or play-maker)? I'd go off of return yardage.
General Terms,
Unfortunately, judging shutdown corners is a hard feat to accomplish (at least in this game). I don't want to break down all the stats necessary to accurately determine it (like analysts for the NFL do), but you're more than welcome to break it down if you feel that strongly on the subject. I sure and hell, am not going to individually view every CB in the league for # of plays vs. compilation of defensive stats.
General Terms
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Originally posted by Warlock
Originally posted by sabresandkane
I think INTs are a good place to start but when have you ever heard anyone judge a player based on their INT return yards?
It's not the first thing people look for, but if you have two guys that both have 10 INTs, how would you judge the better interceptor (or play-maker)? I'd go off of return yardage.
General Terms,
Unfortunately, judging shutdown corners is a hard feat to accomplish (at least in this game). I don't want to break down all the stats necessary to accurately determine it (like analysts for the NFL do), but you're more than welcome to break it down if you feel that strongly on the subject. I sure and hell, am not going to individually view every CB in the league for # of plays vs. compilation of defensive stats.
indeed. my point was its very difficult to quantify actual success based purely on the statistical data.
Originally posted by sabresandkane
I think INTs are a good place to start but when have you ever heard anyone judge a player based on their INT return yards?
It's not the first thing people look for, but if you have two guys that both have 10 INTs, how would you judge the better interceptor (or play-maker)? I'd go off of return yardage.
General Terms,
Unfortunately, judging shutdown corners is a hard feat to accomplish (at least in this game). I don't want to break down all the stats necessary to accurately determine it (like analysts for the NFL do), but you're more than welcome to break it down if you feel that strongly on the subject. I sure and hell, am not going to individually view every CB in the league for # of plays vs. compilation of defensive stats.
indeed. my point was its very difficult to quantify actual success based purely on the statistical data.
rebfan25
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I disagree with INTs being where to start. I'm thinking of real life of course. If you show me a CB that has say 10 INTs, then I guarantee you he's been burned alot too.
I think passes deflected is the better number to look at.
I think passes deflected is the better number to look at.
bdstolar
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Originally posted by shield.bearer
I have a suggestion.
Let sabres do his thing. I trust him to be impartial.
+1
I have a suggestion.
Let sabres do his thing. I trust him to be impartial.
+1
Bob Miley
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Originally posted by shield.bearer
I have a suggestion.
Let sabres do his thing. I trust him to be impartial.
And so what if 90% of the team is from the Comets? What of it?
Just joking with you, sabres. I like the idea. Good luck 
I have a suggestion.
Let sabres do his thing. I trust him to be impartial.
And so what if 90% of the team is from the Comets? What of it?
Just joking with you, sabres. I like the idea. Good luck Bad-Company
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this is a thread about all conference...how did it get microscopisized to cbs?
-edit our team while we love our cb's, plays dont make it that far, but when they do we won. chk stats.
-edit our team while we love our cb's, plays dont make it that far, but when they do we won. chk stats.
Last edited Jun 26, 2008 00:28:28
bravos1
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Originally posted by General Terms
Originally posted by shacky21
why would return yardage be more important than passes deflected? As long as they get the turnover, return yardage is gravy. I'll take a shutdown corner who bats alot of balls away and gets no picks before the corner who gets one lucky pick for a 99yd return.
The other problem with guaging CB's, is that if they always cover their man less balls get thrown their way. Less opporunity for picks, deflections, and tackles.
The best cb is the guy who has the most plays but zero stats w/no throws to his side of the field.
this!
You really need to look at things like pass defends per passes thrown his way. Just because a guy has a bunch or interceptions does not make him the best. A guy that gets 1 interception and 3 pass defends per 20 balls thrown his way is not more impressive than the guy that gets 0.25 interceptions and 10 pass defends / 20 chances imo.
Originally posted by shacky21
why would return yardage be more important than passes deflected? As long as they get the turnover, return yardage is gravy. I'll take a shutdown corner who bats alot of balls away and gets no picks before the corner who gets one lucky pick for a 99yd return.
The other problem with guaging CB's, is that if they always cover their man less balls get thrown their way. Less opporunity for picks, deflections, and tackles.
The best cb is the guy who has the most plays but zero stats w/no throws to his side of the field.
this!
You really need to look at things like pass defends per passes thrown his way. Just because a guy has a bunch or interceptions does not make him the best. A guy that gets 1 interception and 3 pass defends per 20 balls thrown his way is not more impressive than the guy that gets 0.25 interceptions and 10 pass defends / 20 chances imo.
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