Warrior General Games

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
I have never seen a successful high-level (WL) DE who hadn't at least trained jumping up.

Maybe you're the one who's misguided, but it seems you're too busy trying to proclaim yourself as some kind of expert. This has been confirmed multiple times by Bort--jumping increases tackling radius, which helps with sacks.

There are plenty more important attributes, but if you're sitting at 18 jumping you're really missing the boat.

Already a few people posted that their high level successful DE or have seen high level successful DE without doing much with jumping, but I guess you have selective reading skills.

But go ahead, fire up jumping.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Bort says it helps sacks. Shouldn't that be enough?

Bort also said blocking helps shed block, but I don't see any DE rushing to cap blocking.

I'm sure all attributes "help", and Bort as the head huncho will want you to believe that, the point is HOW MUCH does it ACTUALLY helps. Just like Blitz "helps" your spd and agi but in action it's useless. Jumping "helps" but in action it's useless. Blocking "helps" shed block but after years of testing that "Bort statement" we have found it to be useless.

Originally posted by BiggerBlue
Already a few people posted that their high level successful DE or have seen high level successful DE without doing much with jumping, but I guess you have selective reading skills.

But go ahead, fire up jumping.


This is the only high-level, successful DE that has been posted who didn't like jumping: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=663635

He seemed to do pretty well in CPL last year, although now that he apparently has raised jumping his performance in the WL won't really prove anything either way.

I guess what we should all ask... is how did you manage to not train jumping throughout your DE's career? Did you just ignore intense training altogether? You need to pair all the other attributes with something and after some point it makes no sense to ignore jumping as a pair. Or are you so awesome you just single trained everything?

I wanna say jumping doesn't matter, so you guys keep not training and raising it... but so many people have already come out with it, jumping increases tackle radius... increased tackle radius = more hurries and sacks, it's not rocket science.

Originally posted by kanzaki
I wanna say jumping doesn't matter, so you guys keep not training and raising it... but so many people have already come out with it, jumping increases tackle radius... increased tackle radius = more hurries and sacks, it's not rocket science.

Doesn't really help with hurries... another benefit is it helps with deflections.
Over the past couple seasons, D-line pass deflections have become more and more likely.

Jumping doesn't help with hurries, it makes you have LESS hurries, in fact, since it turns hurries into sacks

Originally posted by Homage
Doesn't really help with hurries... another benefit is it helps with deflections.
Over the past couple seasons, D-line pass deflections have become more and more likely.

Thing is this, you might not see it on a DE but on a DT you will... the QB has omnipotence about your tackle radius.. that's why you'll see certain dots nearly overlap him and he throws without a hurry... my DT will causes a hurry as soon as he sheds his blockers.

i have 40+ jumping and still haven't been able to turn those hurries into sacks. But my dot had a lot of hurries last year for being in a pro league.

just my opinion, and we all know about opinions
from the past discussions on jumping I recall most DE players that had jumping between 30-40 found it decent enough. and that the ones that tried going higher than that didnt see a difference in sack output.

I also had a piece of AEQ that got my diving tackle up to 5 and since I got rid of it and have 0 in diving tackle SA now I havent really noticed much of a difference in the # of diving tackles he gets either. maybe if I had kept it and taken it higher I might be seeing more of a difference with it back down to 0 . ( well duh!)
I have my DEs jumping at 36, dont think I'll touch it anymore.

Originally posted by ericb45696
just my opinion, and we all know about opinions
from the past discussions on jumping I recall most DE players that had jumping between 30-40 found it decent enough. and that the ones that tried going higher than that didnt see a difference in sack output.

I also had a piece of AEQ that got my diving tackle up to 5 and since I got rid of it and have 0 in diving tackle SA now I havent really noticed much of a difference in the # of diving tackles he gets either. maybe if I had kept it and taken it higher I might be seeing more of a difference with it back down to 0 . ( well duh!)
I have my DEs jumping at 36, dont think I'll touch it anymore.

I don't think most people are advocating taking jumping to 60, or even to 48, for the most part.

The debate is mainly about whether you should bother training it up to ~35 (whether it helps at all). I think you should, but personally would never cap it or invest in Diving Tackle.

I'd never spend SP in it but I would train it. After a while there are so few things to train efficiently that jumping just makes sense. Even if it doesn't help you get sacks, an increased tackle radius can be useful for a DE when the opposition runs outside and you shed the block.

I think it's hard to judge how much it helps sacks since there aren't any "diving sacks" so to speak. I did put a few points in it on my DT and it definitely helps with tackling radius. Most of his tackling attempts are of the diving variety. Helped a bit with PD's, but that seems to be much more random.

Unfortunately, he doesn't get many sacks so I couldn't confirm whether or how much it helps. During my extensive recruiting voyages, I saw plenty of great DE's with and without jumping. It seems that it probably helps, but isn't necessary for a good build.

I think someone should just create a DT with 80+ natural strength then Jumping to 80 just to see how many passes a DT can bat down from the line of scrimmage. It'd also piss everyone off that thinks jumping is worthless to train to at least 30 when everything else has been capped and training gains are minimal at the end of the build. If the build had some success then maybe we'll give Bort something else to nerf down the road. I may actually decide to build one more player next season so this experimental DT may be the player. Just wanna know if there would be interest out there for this kind of player so I don't waste my flex for nothing.

Just realized none of the DT builds give ALGs on jumping so that would surely hurt the build's long term success if it even had a chance to begin with. I was laughing at the thought of putting jump catch as his bonus SA just for kicks. He could be effective as a situational pass rusher on 3rd down as the NT1 on obvious passing downs where NT's usually watch the DE's put on pressure and get sacks anyway. I'm on some other shit today that's for sure.