Warrior General Games

Originally posted by eastcoastbrian
Not to beat this horse any more but it is in Bort's best interest to not have these types of widely varrying results. The idea that a score differential could be so high with absolutely nothing changing means that in essence the "refs" are controlling the game's results instead of the players and tactics. Knowing that I could coordinate a team that losses 51-30 however that game plan could just have easily resulted in a win why wouldn't I continue to cry foul at the SIM not doing what it is supposed to and demand the game be re-run. Unfortunately these types of results, in my mind, lend to the people slamming the system vs those thinking it is working as intended.

i disagree with what you said here;
"The idea that a score differential could be so high with absolutely nothing changing means that in essence the "refs" are controlling the game's results instead of the players and tactics"

one example; the score differential could be so high if one or both teams have o and d ais with various outputs that occur a similar % of the time that are better or worse suited towards beating the specific opponent and different outputs got selected in the second game - that's not to mention auto adjust getting used by one of the teams.

Originally posted by eastcoastbrian
Not to beat this horse any more but it is in Bort's best interest to not have these types of widely varrying results. The idea that a score differential could be so high with absolutely nothing changing means that in essence the "refs" are controlling the game's results instead of the players and tactics. Knowing that I could coordinate a team that losses 51-30 however that game plan could just have easily resulted in a win why wouldn't I continue to cry foul at the SIM not doing what it is supposed to and demand the game be re-run. Unfortunately these types of results, in my mind, lend to the people slamming the system vs those thinking it is working as intended.
RNG. I'd actually be upset if replaying games with the same rosters & AI always produced similar results. Things should go differently based on the thousands of rolls within any particular contest. That said, re-simming is definitely bullshit.

Originally posted by jdbolick

That said, re-simming is definitely bullshit.


I think EVERYONE here can agree with this!

Why has no one asked the obvious question?

What if the ORIGINAL game was the flawed one? What if that KCG win was the 1 in 100 times (hypothetically) KCG beats SB?

And I say this as a friend of Curtis' and a member of KCG.

I don't know what happened here. This game has far less than anything resembling transparency. But if A is true then the converse of A must also be true.

Originally posted by cwrujosh
But if A is true then the converse of A must also be true.

rule to live by imo

Originally posted by cwrujosh
Why has no one asked the obvious question?

What if the ORIGINAL game was the flawed one? What if that KCG win was the 1 in 100 times (hypothetically) KCG beats SB?

And I say this as a friend of Curtis' and a member of KCG.

I don't know what happened here. This game has far less than anything resembling transparency. But if A is true then the converse of A must also be true.

Thats a fine question to ask. But the bottom line was we did win the 1st game. We just were the unfortunate team that since the server went down they had to resim it, they couldnt get it to unfreeze and had to resim. Rather we should have won it or not, we did the first one, thats the upsetting part. And with our BRUTAL schedule down the stretch here, it would have been HUGE. And the fact is that in our win we were up some 16 or 17 points, they beat us by 1 in the 2nd game

Id say if the Silverbacks and the Gorillas played 100 times, it would be pretty damn close to 50/50 split. Seem like pretty even teams to me

Originally posted by cwrujosh
Why has no one asked the obvious question?

What if the ORIGINAL game was the flawed one? What if that KCG win was the 1 in 100 times (hypothetically) KCG beats SB?

And I say this as a friend of Curtis' and a member of KCG.

I don't know what happened here. This game has far less than anything resembling transparency. But if A is true then the converse of A must also be true.

I would still say the same thing, the results are to varied for my own personal likings. No way to tell as a coordinator whether your team is building and gameplanning correctly. To me it doesn't matter than KCG ended with the loss, truth is, now, when I game plan, I can't tell if the strategy is good or not because one SIM we score 50+ and win by double digits, the next SIM, with nothing changed, we score less than half of that.

As an OC I am shaking my head, and I've been OCing since season 2...never seen anything this varied before.

Originally posted by eastcoastbrian
I would still say the same thing, the results are to varied for my own personal likings. No way to tell as a coordinator whether your team is building and gameplanning correctly. To me it doesn't matter than KCG ended with the loss, truth is, now, when I game plan, I can't tell if the strategy is good or not because one SIM we score 50+ and win by double digits, the next SIM, with nothing changed, we score less than half of that.

As an OC I am shaking my head, and I've been OCing since season 2...never seen anything this varied before.


The results are varied in a sample size of 2? That's just not enough, even using a standard deviation for outliers.

If you simmed this game 10 times and each time the score wildly fluctuated, then I could see maybe making the argument. But there's not enough data for twice.

And if you take Curtis' statement that 100 games would come out 50/50, then you have what happened here, each team won once.

I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong, I've just not seen enough to know whether something is NOT wrong.

It's a tough situation. The best news is that it was the regular season and not the playoffs.

Originally posted by cwrujosh
The best news is that it was the regular season and not the playoffs.

fact

Also, according to ADMIN CATCH22, the original game/sim wasn't completed yet when it got stuck.

How much time was left? Who had the ball? What yard line? etc. etc. There are a hundred things we DON'T know about the original sim but the final score might have been very different from whatever score people were apparently able to see (I never saw it myself).

So whether you think the variances are acceptable or not (I think they are) is irrelevant in this situation. We don't know what the true final score of that original sim was to begin with...which is why the game needed to be re-simulated in the first place.

Originally posted by redrayder28
Also, according to ADMIN CATCH22, the original game/sim wasn't completed yet when it got stuck.

How much time was left? Who had the ball? What yard line? etc. etc. There are a hundred things we DON'T know about the original sim but the final score might have been very different from whatever score people were apparently able to see (I never saw it myself).

So whether you think the variances are acceptable or not (I think they are) is irrelevant in this situation. We don't know what the true final score of that original sim was to begin with...which is why the game needed to be re-simulated in the first place.

That's important information.

I think this is actually GOOD news for KCG. Should you have to face them again, we have a SIM that shows how we got beat and can adjust to try and overcome it.

Originally posted by cwrujosh
That's important information.

I think this is actually GOOD news for KCG. Should you have to face them again, we have a SIM that shows how we got beat and can adjust to try and overcome it.

I'd be looking at it as damn good info. We needed to play a damn near flawless game to eek out a 1pt victory. Apparently the story will be much different if we have a couple turnovers.

Originally posted by redrayder28
Also, according to ADMIN CATCH22, the original game/sim wasn't completed yet when it got stuck.

How much time was left? Who had the ball? What yard line? etc. etc. There are a hundred things we DON'T know about the original sim but the final score might have been very different from whatever score people were apparently able to see (I never saw it myself).

So whether you think the variances are acceptable or not (I think they are) is irrelevant in this situation. We don't know what the true final score of that original sim was to begin with...which is why the game needed to be re-simulated in the first place.

Yes the sim was stuck. But i have looked at games before that was stuck(THE ALL SIMMED FINE BY THEMSELVES), and when you get a game that says 35-51T that has never changed once the game box score shows up. The score was simmed and results were there, just no data as far as play by play. Either way you tell me in a game at any point i got a 51-35 lead, ill take my chances!

Originally posted by redrayder28


How much time was left? Who had the ball? What yard line? etc. etc. There are a hundred things we DON'T know about the original sim but the final score might have been very different from whatever score people were apparently able to see (I never saw it myself).



Agreed, but I think enough of us saw that Kansas City was ahead at some point 51-35. Was there 0:01 left on the clock or was it halftime? Who knows? Who cares at this point.

What I still find interesting is that...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=793609
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=828273
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=621964

...more than a couple of guys show that they have played in twelve (12) games this season, not the eleven that they should have. Now, none of them are under 400 days old (so no XP was gained) and their Game Log shows only 11 games...but it's still interesting given the circumstances surrounding the lost sim.

Let's not forget that KC's win streak was at 11 and that the Silverbacks streak was -1...it was how reallascout first knew who won the game. If the SIM hadn't finished I was surmise that those two numbers wouldn't have changed.

And for those who think that a 40+ point differential in total score in this SIM environment is appropriate when two SIMs are run back to back with the variances we saw is appropriate, just remember that when you look at your scoreboxes as the seasons go on. Losing 20-40 means nothing, it means you could have just as easily won....and when you win 35-10...doesn't mean you gameplanned coprrectly either as you could just as easily have lost.

SIM>All