Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
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Um, no. A SS that can run support, cover a TE like he is supposed to do is just fine where my SS is. Every safety does not need 100+ speed to be effective and I could easily see my duo being pro caliber. Thanks for the vanilla lesson but speed and agility are not the only two skills in the game.

That's the point: he's fine where he is. Right now. At lv. 34.

Now as those TEs learn how to catch fast and move on, he'll get problems getting to the TE in time to knock loose. And he'll make most of his tackles - but not for loss but small gain (unless the HB makes it to the outside, then he's gone for 6). And the mid 80s speed SS never helps out a CB screwing up his tackle or going for the ball. So the CBs need to make sure they can catch the WR in every case and barely ever miss a tackle.

Usually, you want the CB to have a bit less speed and more agility in order to make a play on the ball once in a while. You want them to focus on jumping and catching a bit. If they got slow safeties over the top, you need them to take care of speed all by themselfes and get higher strength and tackling. If so, the safeties can be more of a playmaker.

So yes - you can build a monster at SS with lower speed. You can really have great stats and build a playmaker.

...but it's at the expense of LOLB and strongside CBs. Make sure, your team and DCsupports that idea.

Originally posted by RAPB
Originally posted by Challenge Everything
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Um, no. A SS that can run support, cover a TE like he is supposed to do is just fine where my SS is. Every safety does not need 100+ speed to be effective and I could easily see my duo being pro caliber. Thanks for the vanilla lesson but speed and agility are not the only two skills in the game.That's the point: he's fine where he is. Right now. At lv. 34.

Now as those TEs learn how to catch fast and move on, he'll get problems getting to the TE in time to knock loose. And he'll make most of his tackles - but not for loss but small gain (unless the HB makes it to the outside, then he's gone for 6). And the mid 80s speed SS never helps out a CB screwing up his tackle or going for the ball. So the CBs need to make sure they can catch the WR in every case and barely ever miss a tackle.

Usually, you want the CB to have a bit less speed and more agility in order to make a play on the ball once in a while. You want them to focus on jumping and catching a bit. If they got slow safeties over the top, you need them to take care of speed all by themselfes and get higher strength and tackling. If so, the safeties can be more of a playmaker.

So yes - you can build a monster at SS with lower speed. You can really have great stats and build a playmaker.

...but it's at the expense of LOLB and strongside CBs. Make sure, your team and DCsupports that idea.
That is also just it... the Pro's will never have vanilla builds as the game progresses. DC's will utilize different builds that fit their style. His speed is not going to stay where it is as it will grow with equipment and natural gains. At level 32 he has good speed but he also has other attributes that compliment it. The point is to keep the player in front of you and that is what she does.

Will she ever be in the Pros? Who knows as of right now? Do I care... no. Being in the Pro's right now is a simple circle jerk to begin with and not every one has aspirations of being on a Pro team. I have been there before... it is not all that special nor did I grow an extra pair for being there.

Just look at my build, and let that be your goal

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
Originally posted by RAPB

Originally posted by Challenge Everything

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Um, no. A SS that can run support, cover a TE like he is supposed to do is just fine where my SS is. Every safety does not need 100+ speed to be effective and I could easily see my duo being pro caliber. Thanks for the vanilla lesson but speed and agility are not the only two skills in the game.That's the point: he's fine where he is. Right now. At lv. 34.

Now as those TEs learn how to catch fast and move on, he'll get problems getting to the TE in time to knock loose. And he'll make most of his tackles - but not for loss but small gain (unless the HB makes it to the outside, then he's gone for 6). And the mid 80s speed SS never helps out a CB screwing up his tackle or going for the ball. So the CBs need to make sure they can catch the WR in every case and barely ever miss a tackle.

Usually, you want the CB to have a bit less speed and more agility in order to make a play on the ball once in a while. You want them to focus on jumping and catching a bit. If they got slow safeties over the top, you need them to take care of speed all by themselfes and get higher strength and tackling. If so, the safeties can be more of a playmaker.

So yes - you can build a monster at SS with lower speed. You can really have great stats and build a playmaker.

...but it's at the expense of LOLB and strongside CBs. Make sure, your team and DCsupports that idea.
That is also just it... the Pro's will never have vanilla builds as the game progresses. DC's will utilize different builds that fit their style. His speed is not going to stay where it is as it will grow with equipment and natural gains. At level 32 he has good speed but he also has other attributes that compliment it. The point is to keep the player in front of you and that is what she does.

Will she ever be in the Pros? Who knows as of right now? Do I care... no. Being in the Pro's right now is a simple circle jerk to begin with and not every one has aspirations of being on a Pro team. I have been there before... it is not all that special nor did I grow an extra pair for being there.

All of what Challenge Everything says above is truth. All others should feel free to ignore it and keep believing that having an average player in the pros somehow makes you a better than average agent.

Originally posted by MinnesotaTwins
Just look at my build, and let that be your goal

Pretty nice. However, the slow builder generation are going to need more strength, imo.

Originally posted by MinnesotaTwins
Just look at my build, and let that be your goal

LOL

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Originally posted by Challenge Everything

I am building two safeties to compliment each other. The SS is more of a run stuffer but can cover if needed. My build plan went as follows... I have forgotten some things since they are level 32 right now but...

Speed to 61
Vision to 61
Agility to 61
Tackling to 48
Stamina to 48... so I do not have to worry about it and can help my team to the fullest of my dot's ability
Strength to 48 (currently working on... level 34 should have this at 50.xx)
Currently training vision/confidence and will continue to do this until confidence is nearer to 30.

This might put me near level 40 (after a three level boost to 35 on day 1) so I have 30 skill points to play with right now (because the next 10 will go into strength).

Question is, do those 30 points bump confidence up to the 48 cap, move strength to 61, move tackling to 61 or special abilities?

I think I might look to bump up strength/tackling while continue training vision/confidence at that moment. Then, at level 40 start pumping points into special abilities. I plan on putting skill points in the Hard Hitter tree to the tune of 22233... which will put me at 22277 because I have one AEQ in Big Hit and Monster Hit. (another 17 points)

Here are my current stats: I have yet to buy level 32 equipment so add +2 to speed and +2 to agility
Strength: 42.09
Speed: 84.09
Agility: 68.69
Jumping: 21.69
Stamina: 48.09
Vision: 65.09
Confidence: 16.69

Football Skills
Tackling: 50.09

If you have a decent DC... this build can be quite successful. And, this is at level 32 right now. I did not boost until I was level 22 and I have 82 bonus tokens for my two AEQ's right now.at level 32 your speed and agility need to be close to done.(meaning like 100/80) you're so far behind now. That guy will never be pro material.
also way too much tackling already. My level 55 just now got 50 tackling last level.
Um, no. A SS that can run support, cover a TE like he is supposed to do is just fine where my SS is. Every safety does not need 100+ speed to be effective and I could easily see my duo being pro caliber. Thanks for the vanilla lesson but speed and agility are not the only two skills in the game.

He's right UD. He is the KING of BUILDERS when it comes to safeties... we obviously don't know anything even though our builds are some of the best around and we share it with the world only to be questioned by the "all-arounders" and such. I don't mean to come off condescending but we know our shit and we don't hide it from everyone else.

Here is my SS I'm working on.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1400704

Unlike UD, my training pattern was spd/agi->agi/tkl->str/tkl->str/jmp->jmp/vis->vis/conf->conf/sta forever. I may tweak it but going tackling before strength and so on. It's different for sure... but I build stud utility guys. Not all around boring.

I like going outside the box myself. If it fails, you can always just retire and start fresh.

I have 4 new players, two build conventional to be successful long term and hopefully hit Pro Leagues.
Two built "outside" the box. These two I don't care for making it too far. One is a LB I'm building like a safety, the other is a SS I'm building like a LB. At the same time I'm still sticking to slowbuilding, so I am doing their major attributes first.

IMO, even when trying things out you should stick to slow building. In fact, ESPECIALLY when trying things out. In other words, do NOT go agility 2nd, since it it not a major attribute. Stick with you majors first. It will be a lopsided build early, but you can easily fine a "slow building" team to get on. If not you can always just have your build close and get signed by someguy, and end up starting on a sorry team gaining XP.

Point is slowbuild is the way to go, hitting main attributes first. You can make up for the other ones with EQ so you can still be somewhat not too lopsided early on. Then eventually moving the EQ over when you round out.

Originally posted by Roundbox7
I like going outside the box myself. If it fails, you can always just retire and start fresh.

I have 4 new players, two build conventional to be successful long term and hopefully hit Pro Leagues.
Two built "outside" the box. These two I don't care for making it too far. One is a LB I'm building like a safety, the other is a SS I'm building like a LB. At the same time I'm still sticking to slowbuilding, so I am doing their major attributes first.

IMO, even when trying things out you should stick to slow building. In fact, ESPECIALLY when trying things out. In other words, do NOT go agility 2nd, since it it not a major attribute. Stick with you majors first. It will be a lopsided build early, but you can easily fine a "slow building" team to get on. If not you can always just have your build close and get signed by someguy, and end up starting on a sorry team gaining XP.

Point is slowbuild is the way to go, hitting main attributes first. You can make up for the other ones with EQ so you can still be somewhat not too lopsided early on. Then eventually moving the EQ over when you round out.

Agility is extremely important to a run stuffing SS. Even if it's not a major it should be attended to rather quickly.

I love Agi, even more than Speed. But still can wait.

Originally posted by Challenge Everything



Unlike UD, my training pattern was spd/agi->agi/tkl->str/tkl->str/jmp->jmp/vis->vis/conf->conf/sta forever. I may tweak it but going tackling before strength and so on. It's different for sure... but I build stud utility guys. Not all around boring.

CE and UD do have some great builds, and I often take head of what they say. However, I still can't see the need to cap Agility so early. You trying to take advantage of the great .17 gains? Speed, very understandable, of course. But I would have at least 3 of the major attributes capped before working on Agi, if I was going "conventional".

Originally posted by Roundbox7
I love Agi, even more than Speed. But still can wait.

the natural gains are still worth it more than the natural gains you would achieve from str or tkl in a more impact standpoint. From a SP efficiency standpoint... sure. But sometimes it's not better to do something simply because it creates more SP's gained via auto level gains.

Originally posted by misled
Originally posted by Roundbox7

I love Agi, even more than Speed. But still can wait.

the natural gains are still worth it more than the natural gains you would achieve from str or tkl in a more impact standpoint. From a SP efficiency standpoint... sure. But sometimes it's not better to do something simply because it creates more SP's gained via auto level gains.

That's where I really disagree. SS is tied for the WORSE natural gains for a minor attribute with .17 till level 21, and .07 top out.
By the time you hit the top out at level 38, you would've gained about 5 1/4 attribute points to Agility through natural gains. That's nothing you can't easily make up with a piece of EQ. Meanwhile a major attribute would gain like 12.5 points.

So with no cap you're seeing: 5.25 : 12.5 ratio
When 1st capped: 10.5 : 25
When 2nd capped: 15.75 : 37.5
When 3rd capped: 21 : 50
Etc etc....


That's 21 SP for free through natural gains of the minor attributes (about 4.2 boosts) vs 50 gained to the major (10 boosts). Money wise, $8.40 vs $20.


Really. Agility can wait.

I don't think you're understanding me... I agree that the math adds up, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the difference in value... agility or str/tkl/vis (in terms of a run stuffer who has to chase after both power backs and elusive backs).

They are not weighted the same in performance importance... even if you're gaining a little more SP per level via cap building.
The auto level gain although small in agility is useful because you WILL be taking agility up to the 3rd cap at least and therefore it makes more sense to go agility first and foremost. You will get the most value for agility because you're actually going to take it far. If you don't really plan on taking a certain attribute no farther than the single cap... it makes no sense to waste SP's on it early on and miss out on value for something like agility. I understand the math, but that isn't the complete story on building. Math is a lot of it... but there are other judgment calls that need to be made.

Also training chains dictate the directions you can.

There are plenty of O-linemen in Pro leagues who have close to 80 speed.

A safety with 80 speed at high levels is a disaster. As an OC, if I thought a safety that slow was playing against me at any level outside the minors, I would pretty much pitch to the right every single play and watch the immobile safety try and catch my RB.

Or maybe I would just let one of the numerous 100+ speed receiving TEs around run a straight deep route. And watch the safety get smoked . . .