Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Dudly
Originally posted by seancul55

Originally posted by drakeborn


Originally posted by seancul55



Originally posted by Dudly




ya'll don't forget that agl is only a minor att for a SS, dispite it's huge importance, so the value of capping it quick is pretty low.

I'd have to disagree with that statement wholeheartedly. Besides not wanting to get juked and missing tackles and wanting to actually be able to cover recievers, bort has announced in the past that agility helps you get a quicker "first step" as you attempt to get up to speed quickly. I've seen so many busted plays at SS thanks to a lack of agl

He isn't suggesting not putting points in to agility. He is suggesting it be done later in the build so that you concentrate on major skills, which see slightly more benefit from capping early. And he is absolutely right if your goal is optimum long-term development.

That's the part I disagree with. At least as a cover 2 coverage SS (which I am), agility is one of the first things you cap..... him speaking...

as a cover 2 ss you're build will still suffer from capping agl quick



That's what I don't agree with right there. Explain to me how my build will suffer? I've been playing this game for a long time and have found agl to be pretty underrated by people, which is a shame. Not only does high agl give you a quicker 'first step' (bort said this himself a while back) which gives you a better chance to make a break for the ball, but when I watch my SS and others on my team in sims, I can see what that agl difference gets you: lock down coverage and a super quick first step. Rarely does a pass even so much as come near my SS's zone. I know most of you disagree with me, and that's fine, but as a coverage SS I've got to say that agl is very important if you want to be able to cover and lock people down.

Btw, I've decided that my guy is now fast enough (96 speed almost w/o lvl 40 eq) and has enough vision, so I'm going to try out getting strength to 61 like you guys said (esp. underdog) to see what happens. Hopefully it will even out my build a bit so that I can do more hard hitting and run support. Even then though, I really have no regrets about my build right now. With super high speed, agl, and vision I can cover, and I have the va's now to make up for some lack of strength (if you call almost 49 strength a real 'lack') which I'm now working with as well.

This is a great debate here!

Originally posted by seancul55
.That's what I don't agree with right there. Explain to me how my build will suffer? I've been playing this game for a long time and have found agl to be pretty underrated by people, which is a shame.

You're either not listening or simply don't understand advanced building techniques. I suspect a bit of both tbh.

A SS built with agility coming later will end up with just as high an agility as your player (for the same SPs) but will have higher other attributes.

As has been stated in the posts you responded to, we all value agility. What we question is the order in which you allocate SPs. You advocate allocating them early whereas Dudly and I suggest they should be allocated later in the career. Why? because agility is a minor attribute for SS. This means it gets a smaller per-level gain than the major attributes (Str, Spe, Vis, Tac, and Sta for SS). That means that you will get more SP value from capping Strength, Speed, Vision, and/or Tackling first then saving Agility until the higher levels when the auto-level bonus goes down anyway.

Originally posted by drakeborn
Originally posted by seancul55

.That's what I don't agree with right there. Explain to me how my build will suffer? I've been playing this game for a long time and have found agl to be pretty underrated by people, which is a shame.

You're either not listening or simply don't understand advanced building techniques. I suspect a bit of both tbh.

A SS built with agility coming later will end up with just as high an agility as your player (for the same SPs) but will have higher other attributes.

As has been stated in the posts you responded to, we all value agility. What we question is the order in which you allocate SPs. You advocate allocating them early whereas Dudly and I suggest they should be allocated later in the career. Why? because agility is a minor attribute for SS. This means it gets a smaller per-level gain than the major attributes (Str, Spe, Vis, Tac, and Sta for SS). That means that you will get more SP value from capping Strength, Speed, Vision, and/or Tackling first then saving Agility until the higher levels when the auto-level bonus goes down anyway.



just answer me this: who says it's a "minor" attribute that gets smaller natural gains? The gains as I've understood from bort are that the highest attributes gain the most per each level up, so if speed and agility are my two highest attributes, they will both get the highest gain each level, resulting in that much higher speed and agility than most (which I currently have). Whereas, if I capped speed and strength first like you say, those two would experience the big gains and agility would get the smaller gain because I put less into it, later. Thus this becomes an argument over which is more important again, an I disagree. Maybe I just read bort's words wrong (which would really suck for me btw), but I don't think so.

Originally posted by seancul55
just answer me this: who says it's a "minor" attribute that gets smaller natural gains?

It is just the way the game works and is easily observable when you level up. (There are actually a couple positions (OT, WR) in which minor attributes gain more, but safeties aren't among them.)

Originally posted by seancul55
The gains as I've understood from bort are that the highest attributes gain the most per each level up, so if speed and agility are my two highest attributes, they will both get the highest gain each level, resulting in that much higher speed and agility than most (which I currently have). Whereas, if I capped speed and strength first like you say, those two would experience the big gains and agility would get the smaller gain because I put less into it, later. Thus this becomes an argument over which is more important again, an I disagree. Maybe I just read bort's words wrong (which would really suck for me btw), but I don't think so.

Sorry, but then it sucks for you. You radically misinterpreted whatever it is you remember reading from Bort.

For a primer on the basics of automatic attribute gains, the wiki has an accurate page on it:
http://www.glbwiki.com/index.php?title=Leveling#Automatic_Attribute_Gains

Painmaker's original post on the topic is a year old but nothing has changed regarding the automatic level ups. It can be found here:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=25826

It isn't the important argument you make it out to be, because there isn't much to argue about. I hope this helps, though. Hopefully it informs your future building.

Cheers!

Originally posted by seancul55
Originally posted by Darren Mcfadden 5

As a SS you should be prodominantly tackling and strength a SS is someone who is going to crush people. Speed agility and sure tackles are for FS if i was building a SS then i would use big hit and strength.

This quote... is retarded. You'll never catch that reciever with 100 speed if you build your SS like this says.

SPEEDSPEEDSPEEDAGILITYSPEEDSPEEDSPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speed and agility are king in this game. 1st cap tackling EVENTUALLY down the road (that's waaaaay too much stength and SP's wasted on a level 25 there). Aim to get past the 68 cap on both speed and agility as THESE ARE YOU PRIORITIES ASAP!!! 1st cap (48) strength and tackling down the road by level 35-ish and then never touch them again as you work on speed and agility (while also training stamina, jumping, and vision extensively). By level 45, look for speed AT LEAST over 90, agility around 70, 60 vision, 40 jumping, 40's in stamina, 48 strength, 48 tackling, and mid-20's in catching. Focus mostly on speed, agility, and vision while still pitching in to the others like jumping, strength, and agility. Hope this helps

Right on! but without adequate strength you will be ran over by the better RBs unless you just wrap up. If he's played that long then you need to do more than wrap up, but confidence plays a part in all attributes. Build your speed and agility up 60/40.

Catching the fast guy all depends on what type of coverage you're playing.

I'm a lvl 32 with a speed of 71 and I can hang with guys that are in the high 90's. I also got great hands, agility, and vision to pick that shit off when its thrown as long as I keep the cushion on him, I will jump the routes everytime no matter how fast he is.

Here is an all around good player

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=991728


10 levels from now I'll be a motherfucker to deal with at level 42

Originally posted by Packers27
Catching the fast guy all depends on what type of coverage you're playing.

I'm a lvl 32 with a speed of 71 and I can hang with guys that are in the high 90's. I also got great hands, agility, and vision to pick that shit off when its thrown as long as I keep the cushion on him, I will jump the routes everytime no matter how fast he is.

Speed isn't just for coverage. This was the first play of the game your SS was in during the first round playofff game you lost last season:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=573891&pbp_id=18529876

A couple more points in speed and you would probably have won the game. Just sayin...

Originally posted by drakeborn
Originally posted by seancul55

just answer me this: who says it's a "minor" attribute that gets smaller natural gains?

It is just the way the game works and is easily observable when you level up. (There are actually a couple positions (OT, WR) in which minor attributes gain more, but safeties aren't among them.)

Originally posted by seancul55

The gains as I've understood from bort are that the highest attributes gain the most per each level up, so if speed and agility are my two highest attributes, they will both get the highest gain each level, resulting in that much higher speed and agility than most (which I currently have). Whereas, if I capped speed and strength first like you say, those two would experience the big gains and agility would get the smaller gain because I put less into it, later. Thus this becomes an argument over which is more important again, an I disagree. Maybe I just read bort's words wrong (which would really suck for me btw), but I don't think so.

Sorry, but then it sucks for you. You radically misinterpreted whatever it is you remember reading from Bort.

For a primer on the basics of automatic attribute gains, the wiki has an accurate page on it:
http://www.glbwiki.com/index.php?title=Leveling#Automatic_Attribute_Gains

Painmaker's original post on the topic is a year old but nothing has changed regarding the automatic level ups. It can be found here:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=25826

It isn't the important argument you make it out to be, because there isn't much to argue about. I hope this helps, though. Hopefully it informs your future building.

Cheers!





I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Definitely misinterpreted bort's post. Luckily for me, my error hasn't really hurt my build too badly. You're right, but I still don't really regret building agility so high (as I said I find it helps A LOT), I just regret doing it so early when I wasted the huge early attribute gains by not training strength first. Thanks for drawing my attention to this. As I said, luckily my build isn't really that screwed minus only having like 50 strength and missing the attribute gains. Damn. Thanks again.

Originally posted by seancul55
I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Definitely misinterpreted bort's post. Luckily for me, my error hasn't really hurt my build too badly. You're right, but I still don't really regret building agility so high (as I said I find it helps A LOT), I just regret doing it so early when I wasted the huge early attribute gains by not training strength first. Thanks for drawing my attention to this. As I said, luckily my build isn't really that screwed minus only having like 50 strength and missing the attribute gains. Damn. Thanks again.

It definitely doesn't screw your build. I did it on my first SS too. Cheers.

Originally posted by drakeborn
Originally posted by seancul55

I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Definitely misinterpreted bort's post. Luckily for me, my error hasn't really hurt my build too badly. You're right, but I still don't really regret building agility so high (as I said I find it helps A LOT), I just regret doing it so early when I wasted the huge early attribute gains by not training strength first. Thanks for drawing my attention to this. As I said, luckily my build isn't really that screwed minus only having like 50 strength and missing the attribute gains. Damn. Thanks again.

It definitely doesn't screw your build. I did it on my first SS too. Cheers.



Gotcha. Thanks again