Warrior General Games

Outstanding job Warlock....just a quick question though....I've heard that to much vision for a blocking FB may actually be bad in that it makes him "see to much" making him indecisive....Could you give us your thoughts on this please? THANKS in advance....

Originally posted by Monty Burns
Outstanding job Warlock....just a quick question though....I've heard that to much vision for a blocking FB may actually be bad in that it makes him "see to much" making him indecisive....Could you give us your thoughts on this please? THANKS in advance....

You'd probably have to ask a high vision FB, but it appears that Bort has made vision better the past couple of seasons... a few seasons ago, I would have said that you shouldn't take vision past the 1st cap. My vision isn't super high or anything (50.67), but I don't think that I've ever seen vision as a consistent issue. You'll get the occasional "WTF" moments, but they're becoming less and less frequent.

I think the only time vision may cause issues of indecisiveness is when the player lacks the physical tools to get to the person who is deemed to be the "biggest" threat and then has to determine who else it will block... in turn causing a bunch of confusion if anything... so all this means to me is that vision can only hurt you if you lack the tools to properly handle the play before you...

However, I haven't experience any WTF moments with my low vision players at this point... and I have a high vision LB who is doing extremely well right now despite the lack of physical tools right now (as he's a slow build). Part of me thinks the too much vision BS is a myth. I don't see how assessing the play more efficiently can hinder your performance at all.

Again, I don't think vision is really needed for a FB until later on in the progression because you'll really only utilize it on pass blocking and once you get past the first wave of tacklers... in which you'll need those physical tools to really be able to do that effectively.

Vision always worked as advertised for defensive players. The problem was for offensive players and it was a lot worse back in the day, blockers would go after higher threat defenders (even if it meant passing by and ignoring an immediate threat). HBs would stutter step and run parallel along the line of scrimmage to try and avoid high threat defenders. Occasionally you'll catch a play where a blocker will wig out for no apparent reason... that's the "WTF" moment that I'm referring to. It's pretty rare nowadays though.

Vision used to be a problem, Bort has done a lot to correct things though, particularly the past two or three seasons. So it's not a myth, the problem has been fixed (mostly) and people are still going off of what they heard 6-12 months ago.

That being said, I personally have no experience with vision past 62-63 (my OT) for a blocker... so I couldn't tell you how things are for vision past that point.

Warlock ,Great thread - any advice for my FB - interested in Vision for my Blocking FB

Strength:71 + 26 = 97
Blocking:69
Speed:69 +2 = 70
Agility:69.37
Jumping:15
Catching:16.9
Stamina:44.2
Carrying:28.37
Vision:49.74
Confidence:37.9

45315 (Adv EQ with +4 Pancake )
00000
Got 15 SP to use & +4 from level 48 EQ to allocate.
I like Speed for the EQ,maybe add to Vision & Blocking SA's with SP's.
Always thought Confidence was more of D thing - FB's hit the D-not the other way round -

Originally posted by xylo
Warlock ,Great thread - any advice for my FB - interested in Vision for my Blocking FB

Strength:71 + 26 = 97
Blocking:69
Speed:69 +2 = 70
Agility:69.37
Jumping:15
Catching:16.9
Stamina:44.2
Carrying:28.37
Vision:49.74
Confidence:37.9

45315 (Adv EQ with +4 Pancake )
00000
Got 15 SP to use & +4 from level 48 EQ to allocate.
I like Speed for the EQ,maybe add to Vision & Blocking SA's with SP's.
Always thought Confidence was more of D thing - FB's hit the D-not the other way round -

First of all, very good build.

You have a couple routes here...

A) Use your SP to take str to 100, then use your EQ to raise speed (with the left over SP going into vision). This will help you round out a little more.
B) Raise quick cuts, because it's relatively cheap for the benefit it'll give in return. You could get it to level 4 or so with your boost. This will help you get better position to pick up blocks once you hit the LoS.
C) Raise agility by 7 (SP and EQ). This will help you engage blocks.
D) Raise strength by 7 (SP and EQ). This will augment your ability to pancake.
E) Raise speed by 7 (SP and EQ). This will help you get down field faster, hopefully setting up more room for the HB to make better moves/cuts.
F) Raise vision by 7 (SP), raise strength by 3 and raise speed by 1 (EQ). This will help you take better angles, hopefully leading to better positioning.

Confidence is helpful for all positions. It helps you from going into a morale spiral if the opposing team gets a few big plays in a row. It also helps if you get tackled with big hits and/or monster hits. Even helps when you miss a block or get reverse pancaked. Definitely should be higher for you, but it's something you can train atm.

I would keep working on cap building since you have a couple more seasons to go and it will still be somewhat helpful. So maybe cap strength at the 5x level and then work on speed or agility. Keep training Confidence and stamina too. Your vision is pretty good as is, but you can take it higher if you want to see if it has a noticeable effect.

Thanks for advice - Team has 2 similar FB's - so Stamina isn't as vital as it might have been -
Just rolled Quick Cuts on Adv Eq for my other FB - but its on Hands and he's already got 1st Step on that !
Playing at TE aswell -so looking at Agility

Originally posted by xylo
Thanks for advice - Team has 2 similar FB's - so Stamina isn't as vital as it might have been -
Just rolled Quick Cuts on Adv Eq for my other FB - but its on Hands and he's already got 1st Step on that !
Playing at TE aswell -so looking at Agility

No worries. There's only so much advice that one can offer, due to all the little unknowns (like the AEQ thing, what role you play on the team, etc...).

Thanks for the help Warlock.
Here is a Play that Tank never could have pulled off last season.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=663026&pbp_id=677
BTW, the blocking was superb to clear Tank's way.

Originally posted by Horse41tx
Thanks for the help Warlock.
Here is a Play that Tank never could have pulled off last season.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=663026&pbp_id=677
BTW, the blocking was superb to clear Tank's way.

Glad to see it helped. My FB got traded this season, after an argument with my previous team's owner. My role is changing quite a bit this season, I'm going from a power HB to an offensive FB. I'm anxious to see how I perform in the new role. I get to run out of the FB slot and be more of a scat back.

Not too bad of a debut...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=659164

hey warlock, dont know if you remember me but i used to be on the fb boards all the time, you got any advice for this guy?\

Marcellus Rollins (Lv. 24 FB)
Ht/Wt: 6'4", 250lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $27880
Daily Salary: $1712
Skill Points: 1
Training Points: 0
Bonus Tokens: 32
Veteran Points: 0
Next Level: 695/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 92.13
Speed: 10
Agility: 62.13
Jumping: 9
Stamina: 20.45
Vision: 23.45
Confidence: 24.45

Football Skills
Blocking: 26.13
Catching: 14.45
Tackling: 14.45
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 52.13
Kicking: 10
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Blocking Abilities
Hands: 0
Lead Block: 0
Spot Blitz: 0
Strong Arm: 0
Pancake: 0

Offensive Abilities (this is with custom
Cover Up: 1
Sticky Hands: 1
Power Through: 1
Quick Cut: 1
Dive for Yardage: 1

right now all eq is in strength. im trying to make a rushing fb. i know the advice on strength is that 60 or 70 is enough, but i dont know if i want to stay where im at or start putting eq into speed or get to 100 or so strngth.

Originally posted by wontgodown
hey warlock, dont know if you remember me but i used to be on the fb boards all the time, you got any advice for this guy?\

Marcellus Rollins (Lv. 24 FB)
Ht/Wt: 6'4", 250lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $27880
Daily Salary: $1712
Skill Points: 1
Training Points: 0
Bonus Tokens: 32
Veteran Points: 0
Next Level: 695/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 92.13
Speed: 10
Agility: 62.13
Jumping: 9
Stamina: 20.45
Vision: 23.45
Confidence: 24.45

Football Skills
Blocking: 26.13
Catching: 14.45
Tackling: 14.45
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 52.13
Kicking: 10
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Blocking Abilities
Hands: 0
Lead Block: 0
Spot Blitz: 0
Strong Arm: 0
Pancake: 0

Offensive Abilities (this is with custom
Cover Up: 1
Sticky Hands: 1
Power Through: 1
Quick Cut: 1
Dive for Yardage: 1

right now all eq is in strength. im trying to make a rushing fb. i know the advice on strength is that 60 or 70 is enough, but i dont know if i want to stay where im at or start putting eq into speed or get to 100 or so strngth.

I remember you.

It comes down to how long you want to keep progressing before your peak. The longer you build, the better your player should be when he does peak, but you pay the price in how long he'll be able to contribute at that increased level. (I.E. the longer you take to increase attributes before starting to round him out, shortens his career in terms of being an effective player).

Building is a balancing act. You have to weigh attributes vs one another. Carrying and strength do relatively the same thing for a FB, once they reach a certain point... such as, if strength costs 5 points to raise and carrying costs 3 points to raise, which is more efficient? I would raise carrying over strength in that situation TBPH. You're netting more points for the same cost.

What I do when building any player, is I envision his role and build accordingly, trying to be as efficient as possible. The goal of any running back is to take would be tacklers out of the play, elusive backs either out-run or juke their way past. So for a power runner, you want to break tackles as your primary means to gain yards. Although breaking tackles isn't enough, you also need to make those broken tackles mean something. So now you need some speed, in order to make those broken tackles effective. You also need agility to help recover from a broken tackle (I.E. get back to moving forward as soon and as fast as possible). So you have to balance it all.

Broken tackles are worthless if you're too slow to capitalize on them. Like being so slow that by the time you plow thru the first wave of defenders, the second wave is already on you, without you taking more than a couple steps. Just as an elusive back's speed and agility are useless, if they can't shake the defenders via juke/fakes/etc...

So taking strength to 100 is awesome, but only if it doesn't take away from other facets of your build. What are you giving up by taking strength that high? Is it 5 or so worth of points in a couple other attributes difference? Is that added strength more valuable than those other attributes, for the role you're in?

well, im done with strength as far as skill points go. its at a 74 natural and i dont like spending 5 sp's to go up 1. when it goes up it would be through eq. i think i might just pump carrying to 61 while training speed. then get speed to 68 with some eq. then just go all out on sa's for a little bit.

thanks for the advice

I'd take carrying to 68 personally, but you might have to sacrifice somewhere due to taking strength that high. Losing carrying is probably the better alternative over losing speed TBPH.

Bring your agility to 68 first. Then finish off carrying. Train speed/stamina till like high 30's on speed. You could also consider capping vision at some point... but honestly the natural gains on vision are so minimal at this point you could easily ignore it till later.

I hope you just finished capping one of those attributes because you should've been traing spd/sta after you finished agility off.