Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks

Originally posted by djhoffman99


Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

No.

Good point.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
Originally posted by Bukowski

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks


Originally posted by djhoffman99



Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

No.

Good point.

Yes.

Originally posted by whatje
carrying.

The definition of carrying would seem to support that, but it doesn't seem likely that is the only factor in the trigger unless carrying also gives a player awareness of defensive players. There has to be some basic trigger that tells the player "there is a defensive guy. I'd better try to get around him".

Here is the definition of vision from the wiki:

"Did you see that hole open to the left? Can you see the goalposts? Vision helps ALL players know what is going on around them. It is very important for QBs "threading the needle" with passes. It's also sort of the "6th sense" of predicting what your opponent is going to do when blocking or trying to break blocks. It also plays a role in avoiding penalties like false start and offsides."

I'm convinced it plays a major role, there is just no way to tell how much. Carrying looks like a factor too.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
Originally posted by djhoffman99

Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

That makes no sense. This is a computer program. Some external trigger would have to make the "check" to call the HF code.

Originally posted by djhoffman99
Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks

Originally posted by djhoffman99


Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

That makes no sense. This is a computer program. Some external trigger would have to make the "check" to call the HF code.

The SAs get there own check/roll to whether or not it works when it reaches a situation where the SA can work. Attributes can help increase the chances that an SA will work.

Originally posted by Lost My Halo
...when it reaches a situation where the SA can work.
This is the trigger we are talking about. There certainly isn't an SA check on every single tick.

Think about it this way. If the sim was run with the offense ONLY, no defense on the field - which could be done since this is a program - would HF ever trigger? It had better not or Bort is a moron.

Originally posted by djhoffman99
Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks

Originally posted by djhoffman99


Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

That makes no sense. This is a computer program. Some external trigger would have to make the "check" to call the HF code.

I'm pretty sure your argument is full of fail. SAs that have a chance of fireing have a better chance of fireing depending on the level of the SA. SAs are modifiers though. That's where the skills come in. Even if you give a 50% bonus to 30 strength, that's only 45 strength an an RB isn't likely to break the tackle. I was under the impression this was common knowledge.

Originally posted by voltageaav
Originally posted by djhoffman99

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks


Originally posted by djhoffman99



Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

That makes no sense. This is a computer program. Some external trigger would have to make the "check" to call the HF code.

I'm pretty sure your argument is full of fail. SAs that have a chance of fireing have a better chance of fireing depending on the level of the SA. SAs are modifiers though. That's where the skills come in. Even if you give a 50% bonus to 30 strength, that's only 45 strength an an RB isn't likely to break the tackle. I was under the impression this was common knowledge.

What about the ones that don't modify an attribute. Such as head fake and juke?

Originally posted by voltageaav
Originally posted by djhoffman99

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks


Originally posted by djhoffman99



Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

That makes no sense. This is a computer program. Some external trigger would have to make the "check" to call the HF code.

I'm pretty sure your argument is full of fail. SAs that have a chance of fireing have a better chance of fireing depending on the level of the SA. SAs are modifiers though. That's where the skills come in. Even if you give a 50% bonus to 30 strength, that's only 45 strength an an RB isn't likely to break the tackle. I was under the impression this was common knowledge.

No, you don't get it. I understand all of that but it has nothing to do with my point. Something has to trigger the chance for the SA to fire. As I said above, they certainly don't get a "roll" every tick. Each SA has some trigger - i.e. set of circumstances - that must be present for them to fire. For those that involve trying to avoid a tackle, the only trigger that makes sense it vision.

The pseudo-code would look something like this:

<for each tick>
................................
if defensive_players within_range = true then
for each defender
call sub head_fake
call sub spin
call sub juke
*code to determine tackle or no tackle*
end for defender
end if
...................................
<end for each tick>

Understand now? Something has to tell the sim that the circumstances warrant a check for head fake or some other SA. That has nothing to do with the SA itself. The SA levels only increase the probability of firing, not the circumstances involving the trigger.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=879997
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=880092

These are my 2 slow built WR's they have 11 SP and 10 SP respectively...They are pretty good builds with slow build...I am currently training on Confidence and One other area like vision and carrying...depending on the day...let me know what you all think about it.

Originally posted by djhoffman99
Originally posted by voltageaav

Originally posted by djhoffman99


Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks



Originally posted by djhoffman99




Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

That makes no sense. This is a computer program. Some external trigger would have to make the "check" to call the HF code.

I'm pretty sure your argument is full of fail. SAs that have a chance of fireing have a better chance of fireing depending on the level of the SA. SAs are modifiers though. That's where the skills come in. Even if you give a 50% bonus to 30 strength, that's only 45 strength an an RB isn't likely to break the tackle. I was under the impression this was common knowledge.

No, you don't get it. I understand all of that but it has nothing to do with my point. Something has to trigger the chance for the SA to fire. As I said above, they certainly don't get a "roll" every tick. Each SA has some trigger - i.e. set of circumstances - that must be present for them to fire. For those that involve trying to avoid a tackle, the only trigger that makes sense it vision.

The pseudo-code would look something like this:

<for each tick>
................................
if defensive_players within_range = true then
for each defender
call sub head_fake
call sub spin
call sub juke
*code to determine tackle or no tackle*
end for defender
end if
...................................
<end for each tick>

Understand now? Something has to tell the sim that the circumstances warrant a check for head fake or some other SA. That has nothing to do with the SA itself. The SA levels only increase the probability of firing, not the circumstances involving the trigger.


I understand your point, but I think it's false to base it on an attribute of your own player rather than a match-up and a situation that arises as interaction between your player and his defender(s).

Originally posted by djhoffman99
Originally posted by whatje

carrying.

The definition of carrying would seem to support that, but it doesn't seem likely that is the only factor in the trigger unless carrying also gives a player awareness of defensive players. There has to be some basic trigger that tells the player "there is a defensive guy. I'd better try to get around him".

Here is the definition of vision from the wiki:

"Did you see that hole open to the left? Can you see the goalposts? Vision helps ALL players know what is going on around them. It is very important for QBs "threading the needle" with passes. It's also sort of the "6th sense" of predicting what your opponent is going to do when blocking or trying to break blocks. It also plays a role in avoiding penalties like false start and offsides."

I'm convinced it plays a major role, there is just no way to tell how much. Carrying looks like a factor too.

Vision may have some effect, but as far as triggering SAs go I think it's completely useless. I find it hard to believe the WR triggering of SAs like HF/Juke/Spin is any different than HBs, and carrying (when coupled with agility) has a substantial effect on the number of times a runner successfully fires those particular SAs. Vision may or may not be important in pathing, but i think the evidence of its import in this area is seriously limited and I prefer to not waste points in it. For WRs, there is obviously an increased value for vision b/c it also impacts pass-catching.

Originally posted by djhoffman99
Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks

Originally posted by djhoffman99


Something has to trigger HF/Spin/Juke. If it isn't vision, what would it be? It had better not be random. Nothing else makes sense.

The SA itself triggers it.

That makes no sense. This is a computer program. Some external trigger would have to make the "check" to call the HF code.

You have to have an SA for it to trigger obviously, but there are modifiers (quick feet, aeq) that increase how often it triggers. Stats like agi & carrying impact whether or not a triggered SA is successful from my understanding, what relevance is there in whether they have an impact on an SA triggering if its unsuccessful? I just don't see what the difference is for players, because triggered SAs that don't work don't even show up in the sim.

I'm pretty sure the sim just rolls a check whenever a set condition is met ie, a defender gets within a certain distance from the player/the defender attempts a tackle.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by RobertRJS

Bort, I remember you earlier saying higher vision increases the likelihood of certain SAs going off like Juke and head Fake (for like a receiver). Is this correct or did I remember incorrectly?

Yes, and carrying is important, too!

There.

Couldn't find the old quote cuz the search ain't helping, but I got him to confirm it tonight.

happy?

Yeah. That's a good one to know.