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Kevin Smith
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Originally posted by ArthurRiot
Originally posted by Kevin Smith

Iīll admit, it is not a fun way to win, it perhaps isnīt "honourable", but winning is still more fun than losing.


I gotta disagree with you... I feel like I'm being disrespected when my opponent thinks they're too good to use certain plays. It's a sign of disrespect that someone thinks they don't need to try that hard to win.



Valid point.

 
ArthurRiot
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Originally posted by Zickzack
Originally posted by ArthurRiot

Sorry, I missed that. I guess you aren't a GM for Korb, who just lost today to I&F. My mistake.

No, what you missed was my comments after the first round, where I said the exact same thing without any affiliation to any team that lost to a cheese squad.

Originally posted by

And you are blaming PLAYERS and TEAMS for a problem you have with the SIM.

No, i am blaming you for ABUSING said problem. Quite a difference.

Originally posted by

using every effective play in the book).

Yeah, all two of them, you guys are so smart. I bow to your clearly superior knowledge of the game and it's intrinsics, we clearly could not hold a candle to the way you game "planned" your offense for the playoffs.



Ok, so here we've proven a few things...

1) You are a sore loser, whether you win or lose.
2) Awwww, we disagree with your philosophy. We feel TEWWIBLE about it!!! We'll stop WIGHT away, because Mistuh ZickZack says so!
3) You didn't watch our game. Go ahead, check out our play calling. I dare you.

Let's find out if you can hold a candle; get to the championship game. We'll try to do the same. You can face us man up, and do whatever you can to stop us.

I PROMISE we are going to do WHATEVER we can legally do to win. See if you can beat us. We'll be the Russian, who are you? Rocky or Apollo Creed?
 
Kevin Smith
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Originally posted by Zickzack
Originally posted by ArthurRiot

Sorry, I missed that. I guess you aren't a GM for Korb, who just lost today to I&F. My mistake.

No, what you missed was my comments after the first round, where I said the exact same thing without any affiliation to any team that lost to a cheese squad.

Originally posted by

And you are blaming PLAYERS and TEAMS for a problem you have with the SIM.

No, i am blaming you for ABUSING said problem. Quite a difference.

Originally posted by

using every effective play in the book).

Yeah, all two of them, you guys are so smart. I bow to your clearly superior knowledge of the game and it's intrinsics, we clearly could not hold a candle to the way you game "planned" your offense for the playoffs.



ZZ, I have a lot of respect for you, but you of all people need to get off your high horse. Why didnīt Bort and you testers decide to do anything about this? It has been available to everyone since last season. As I just wrote in my previous post, jp wouldnīt stop lobbying for the Islam runs with Mal from about game 8 last season. Not saying you should have noticed then, but you could have, and when you became a tester, it should have been something that was a top priority.
 
coreyls18
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maybe cause it hasnt happened to me yet on any of teams....but i really dont think the I Slam play is an exploit...
 
ksychic
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Alright, seriously guys... stop bitching!!

Both teams have the option to cheese...

I respect the team that doesn't, as I wouldn't myself, however a win is a win!

Congrats Stockholm... enjoy your playoff run
 
Zickzack
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Originally posted by Kevin Smith
Bort does sim updates up to week 12, and has a team of testers supposed to be looking for this kind of thing. Nothing has been changed. That one of those testers is one of the most vocal critics of how we just won is hugely ironic.

Funny you should mention that, the first testers were invited around the time the playoffs started last season, I accepted the invite day 42 if I am not mistaken. So much for that theory that this could have been tested last season. And what's so funny about me being one of the most vocal critics? Does that have anything to do with me being a "tester"? Which in the truest sense of the word I am not really so far in any regard but the Defensive AI tester. But anyway, it has nothing to do with that, it has to do with how I feel about integrity, sportsmanship and not abusing even well known bugs and flaws. Which, in a roundabout way, is probably one of the reasons that I was invited to the test server in the first place, which certainly came as a surprise to me.
 
Kevin Smith
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Originally posted by coreyls18
maybe cause it hasnt happened to me yet on any of teams....but i really dont think the I Slam play is an exploit...


We won by 3 points. It is the be all and end all of cheats. Harakiri in Stockholm starts at 6AM sharp.
 
Zickzack
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Originally posted by ArthurRiot

3) You didn't watch our game. Go ahead, check out our play calling. I dare you.

And once again you obviously missed some information that was readily at hand. I did look at the game, I posted the numbers, even in comparison to the regular season numbers. Thanks for playing, please try again ...

 
TheInfinity
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Originally posted by ArthurRiot
Originally posted by TheInfinity

I don't have a problem with the meatballs using their strategy, and with the admission that there were changes made for the sake of winning, I'm all good as of now. All I wanted to a definitive "Yes, we altered things" and that came down the pipe.

As for the pinch-hitter example, its not cheating, but it is rather cheap. Sort of like stealing signs. Its not against the rules per say but its not the most honorable way to win. Not to have that statement reflect on the Meatballs though, the adjustments made were slight in comparison to those two examples.

Either way, I'm happy we're all in agreement that Bort mucked this season up and hopefully the changes on tap for Season 9 will get us going in the right direction again.


It's a HUGE internet sim game. This game started a year ago and got FUCKING GIGANTIC over the course of 2 months. Every 2 days, there are some 1600 games, with at least 50 plays each, and with how many (300,000?) unique builds involved.

If anyone didnt' see a bump in the road like this... come on. We have to expect that some things will be slightly skewed. I don't blame Bort for it; this wasn't purposeful. It's just something that happens in games like these. Should it be corrected? Sure, but making those changes is ALSO a fine line.


It is, but its also just frustrating to look back at times like Season 6, when things works well and he had the fixes right at his grasp (more strength importance at the line of scrimmage) yet decided to have the "realism" poll which resulted in DE-nerf, overpowering of power backs (which somehow wasn't curtailed after Season 7), nerfing of elusive backs, QBs unable to find wide open receivers and throwing into double and triple coverage instead.

Not to mention while all of this was falling apart in the simulation we got VAs, more VAs, a new training system, Advanced Equipment, and Endorsements. While I like the first few, endorsements was idiocy in a bottle, especially with how pressing the simulation matters were.

I appreciate Bort and his effort, but I will nonetheless freely and frequently call him out on bad decisions cause if I was running the show, I'd want people to do the same. I just hope that with the number of people doing it he has the ability to pick out the well thought out criticisms from the sea of crap that tends to float around on boards.
 
ArthurRiot
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Originally posted by ksychic
Alright, seriously guys... stop bitching!!

Both teams have the option to cheese...

I respect the team that doesn't, as I wouldn't myself, however a win is a win!

Congrats Stockholm... enjoy your playoff run


We're sorry we can't face you this week. I'm actually pissed about that (no disrespect, I&F, but it's more a personal thing since I was nearly a BFM this season).
 
ArthurRiot
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Originally posted by Zickzack
Originally posted by ArthurRiot


3) You didn't watch our game. Go ahead, check out our play calling. I dare you.

And once again you obviously missed some information that was readily at hand. I did look at the game, I posted the numbers, even in comparison to the regular season numbers. Thanks for playing, please try again ...



Awww, post them again... it's hard to remember every time you've repeatedly acted like a shunned stepson.
 
Zickzack
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Originally posted by ArthurRiot
Awww, post them again... it's hard to remember every time you've repeatedly acted like a shunned stepson.


Once again opting for easy mode I see ... no surprise there. Go find them yourself, or post your version if you think I am so off base.
 
Kevin Smith
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Originally posted by Zickzack
Originally posted by Kevin Smith

Bort does sim updates up to week 12, and has a team of testers supposed to be looking for this kind of thing. Nothing has been changed. That one of those testers is one of the most vocal critics of how we just won is hugely ironic.

Funny you should mention that, the first testers were invited around the time the playoffs started last season, I accepted the invite day 42 if I am not mistaken. So much for that theory that this could have been tested last season. And what's so funny about me being one of the most vocal critics? Does that have anything to do with me being a "tester"? Which in the truest sense of the word I am not really so far in any regard but the Defensive AI tester. But anyway, it has nothing to do with that, it has to do with how I feel about integrity, sportsmanship and not abusing even well known bugs and flaws. Which, in a roundabout way, is probably one of the reasons that I was invited to the test server in the first place, which certainly came as a surprise to me.


People paying serious attention to the sim (I assume this is a prerequisite for being a tester?) noticed this halfway thru season 7. Nowhere did I say it should have been tested last season, merely that it should have been acknowledged early enough for something to be done before the game 12 cut-off for sim changes this season. I donīt know your role, but you must have more access to the devs than us mortals and are one of the guys supposed to be preventing just this kind of thing. But here you are, loudly denouncing us 2 seasons after the exploit play came into existance. Very ironic.
Last edited Apr 1, 2009 15:15:09
 
ArthurRiot
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Originally posted by TheInfinity
Originally posted by ArthurRiot

Originally posted by TheInfinity


I don't have a problem with the meatballs using their strategy, and with the admission that there were changes made for the sake of winning, I'm all good as of now. All I wanted to a definitive "Yes, we altered things" and that came down the pipe.

As for the pinch-hitter example, its not cheating, but it is rather cheap. Sort of like stealing signs. Its not against the rules per say but its not the most honorable way to win. Not to have that statement reflect on the Meatballs though, the adjustments made were slight in comparison to those two examples.

Either way, I'm happy we're all in agreement that Bort mucked this season up and hopefully the changes on tap for Season 9 will get us going in the right direction again.


It's a HUGE internet sim game. This game started a year ago and got FUCKING GIGANTIC over the course of 2 months. Every 2 days, there are some 1600 games, with at least 50 plays each, and with how many (300,000?) unique builds involved.

If anyone didnt' see a bump in the road like this... come on. We have to expect that some things will be slightly skewed. I don't blame Bort for it; this wasn't purposeful. It's just something that happens in games like these. Should it be corrected? Sure, but making those changes is ALSO a fine line.


It is, but its also just frustrating to look back at times like Season 6, when things works well and he had the fixes right at his grasp (more strength importance at the line of scrimmage) yet decided to have the "realism" poll which resulted in DE-nerf, overpowering of power backs (which somehow wasn't curtailed after Season 7), nerfing of elusive backs, QBs unable to find wide open receivers and throwing into double and triple coverage instead.

Not to mention while all of this was falling apart in the simulation we got VAs, more VAs, a new training system, Advanced Equipment, and Endorsements. While I like the first few, endorsements was idiocy in a bottle, especially with how pressing the simulation matters were.

I appreciate Bort and his effort, but I will nonetheless freely and frequently call him out on bad decisions cause if I was running the show, I'd want people to do the same. I just hope that with the number of people doing it he has the ability to pick out the well thought out criticisms from the sea of crap that tends to float around on boards.


And by all means, go ahead. But he has to balance between letting people's player builds affect the outcome and letting certain things get too powerful. Without being able to actively control the in game playcalling, ALL the control goes to your tactics and player builds. He keeps adding all these variables (attributes, equipment, skill trees, vet abilities, advanced equipment, unique play builders) that could potentially be combined in some lethal way, and let's face facts; at some point you HAVE to allow for luck in any system. Am I lucky that I found an awesome piece of advanced equipment? Yeah, but I also searched like a motherfucker and have been training specifically to compliment the bonuses I get there.

Bort is expected to make the game controllable but only in a way where EVERYONE gets their chance to win, and players who can be built however they want, but no one wants to be able to suffer the consequences of a bad build... he's in a relatively thankless spot. Then most people talk like he's getting a mill a week on this game... I really doubt he's making enough to get exempt from Obama's tax break.
 
ArthurRiot
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Originally posted by Zickzack
Originally posted by ArthurRiot

Awww, post them again... it's hard to remember every time you've repeatedly acted like a shunned stepson.


Once again opting for easy mode I see ... no surprise there. Go find them yourself, or post your version if you think I am so off base.


Yeah...nah. I have no problem with what I've done. You do. The burden is on you to prove your case, prosecutor. As the defense, I am not required to enter anything into evidence, merely rebuke you.

If you don't like what I've said, show me where I'm wrong. Until then all I hear is 'wahhhhhhh wahhhhhhhh! If I were in charge, this wouldn't happen!!!!'
 
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