Warrior General Games

Originally posted by MorsDraconis
Originally posted by Bones Brigade

I would support the attribute VAs getting totally removed, for the above mentioned reasons

everyone uses them
they are better than the other stuff

and - I think veterans should not be getting stronger and faster as they get older. in fact the opposite should happen, they get weaker and slower. i think veterans should be able to make up for some of that with smarter\better play, ie bonus to morale effects, second chance re-rolls, etc

to me the other ones seem like logical abilities for veterans and should only activate a small amount of time. i especially like how specialized the newer ones are - screen blocker, showboat blocker, lead blocker, etc. I think those are right on target.

just my .02cs

I'd have no problem with them taking out the attribute VAs either except there are going to be a bunch of high level players that are going to play like shit again because they were built when we didn't know what the fuck was going on or have been made shitty because they were built for season 3-4 changes instead of season 8-9 changes.

I think everyone would be happier if he instituted the ability to purchase players at pregenerated levels so that everyone could enjoy the game how they want and people that are getting fucked over by all these drastic changes could just start over again with another player at around the same level.

Have packages like:

Lvl 40 WR, HB, or QB for 4320 flex (save 10% off of building them normally to compensate for not being able to slow build them from birth)

Lvl 40 Defense, TE, and FB for 2880 flex (again, save 10%)

Lvl 40 Offensive Line, K, and P for 1440 flex


And just basically do somethin' like that. Make the save in Flex worth purchasing the player and the players come with all the level ups already added and the amount of SP that they'd have accumulated of the course of their level ups otherwise.

That way, you have an out for the people that bitch about getting totally screwed by the sim.

Screw that! If you made a sucky char then reroll it. Suck it up and learn from your mistakes. If it takes you a few times to get it right then good, it makes you that much more adept at the game itself.

I'm flexible. Losing the attribute boosting VA's will hurt my season 1 & 2 players, but will help my later slow built players who now can't buy a win even though they have played higher level teams with crappy builds.

Way is this even being talked about with 6 games left in the season? Totally bullshit. Should be address in the off season. Nerf the passing game and what have you because it going to happen no matter what but the VA thing is BS and anything with players builds should be addressed in the offseason not with fucking 6 game left in the season.

I don't think he's going to actually change the VAs right now, Joe.

He's just talking about the future.

Correct.
Bort specifically stated that he would never make any VA changes during the season.

Originally posted by Sockamidic


Want people to use the attribute bonus VAs less?

Make the non-attribute VAs more attractive.

Just look at the garbage over there, of course you'll choose attribute based VAs over Slow Starter, Streaky, Never Give Up etc.


This in a nutshell.


Sadly, the only real way to make the non attributes more attractive is to take them away. Bort seems to be real shady on wanting to make the non attribs any more powerful.

When VA's were first implemented I created multiple suggestion threads that suggested Bort should immediately remove the att. boosting VA's. They don't really serve much purpose in the long run, and they certainly negate some randomness from the sim. Sure, I've been using them, but it doesn't mean they make sense. We all like them because they make us faster, but if they were removed, anyone using Track Star, for instance, would still have the same exact speed differential. Therefore, they are mostly pointless. I think Bort needs to grow a sack, remove them (he obviously wants to), and upgrade the situational VA's. I know he doesn't necessarily care about the complainers, but at the same time he does care. He wants to pander to those with the loudest voice, so instead of pandering, he needs to just take the sim in the direction he foresees it being most successful, and run with it.

As for people leaving the game, does it really matter? I haven't bought flex since Black Friday sale, and won't need any flex until maybe end of next season. Many others bought WAY more flex than I bought, so there are a lot of gamers on here who have no need to buy flex. I'm sure Bort's paypal receipts have come to a screeching hault, but it shouldn't affect him. It wouldn't affect me if I was doing his job. He has to take this thing away from beta, and he has to implement some advertising revenue. Without advertising revenue from banner ads, he will never be able to lower the cost of flex -- and until he lowers the cost of flex, people are going to be wary of pumping into the system.

He has a long ways to go, and while some people's complaints are warranted, most of the whining is just that -- whining.

I think Bort needs to offer a special on whamburgers and french cries, because that's what most of the complainers deserve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZbdIQLsEpU

Originally posted by teamriots
When VA's were first implemented I created multiple suggestion threads that suggested Bort should immediately remove the att. boosting VA's. They don't really serve much purpose in the long run, and they certainly negate some randomness from the sim. Sure, I've been using them, but it doesn't mean they make sense. We all like them because they make us faster, but if they were removed, anyone using Track Star, for instance, would still have the same exact speed differential. Therefore, they are mostly pointless. I think Bort needs to grow a sack, remove them (he obviously wants to), and upgrade the situational VA's. I know he doesn't necessarily care about the complainers, but at the same time he does care. He wants to pander to those with the loudest voice, so instead of pandering, he needs to just take the sim in the direction he foresees it being most successful, and run with it.

As for people leaving the game, does it really matter? I haven't bought flex since Black Friday sale, and won't need any flex until maybe end of next season. Many others bought WAY more flex than I bought, so there are a lot of gamers on here who have no need to buy flex. I'm sure Bort's paypal receipts have come to a screeching hault, but it shouldn't affect him. It wouldn't affect me if I was doing his job. He has to take this thing away from beta, and he has to implement some advertising revenue. Without advertising revenue from banner ads, he will never be able to lower the cost of flex -- and until he lowers the cost of flex, people are going to be wary of pumping into the system.

He has a long ways to go, and while some people's complaints are warranted, most of the whining is just that -- whining.

I think Bort needs to offer a special on whamburgers and french cries, because that's what most of the complainers deserve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZbdIQLsEpU


I agree... he needs to get rid of them.... it will be the only thing that will make our players different.

I would like for our attributes to stop at 100, why not have a set limit on something. If you do that then us as players have something that we can strive to get to BUT in the current system it is all messed up because he has no limit.

This is why it is messed up ---
example, he is trying to change how your vision plays a bigger role in your catching, throwing, running(everything) all just to try to even everything out so that people arent just building speed and agility players....

and until there is some sort of standard then it will never get fixed properly...

YES there will be players that will still go to the exteme and rightfully so their players should pay for not being as balanced as others BUT for now that isnt happening,

so you have ---
example DE's- if you have nowhere near the strength of the OT then you should get pancaked during running plays but he redid agility so that you aviod pancakes, then you have the speed DE who started running around OT's so he changed the setup of the O-line to help combat that. It will be a NEVER ending cycle because the real problem is that ZONE defenses suck so everyone has to play man 2 man, until that gets fixed everything will have to continue to change...

IMHO, attribute boosting VAs saved this game from annihilation.

They made it so that season 1 regular built players could still compete with newer slow built players.

If you take away the skill raising VAs, i believe you relegate all the season 1 players that didn't slow build to utter uselessness. I know that personally I will end up retiring almost ever single season 1 player I have if they take these away.

It's the only way my season 1 dudes can compete with season 4 slow builds that have 10+ more in their primary atts. The reason i can compete now is that even though the slow build can still have 10 more in the stat, the diminishing returns due to % change is lowered just enough that the season 1 players aren't completely unable to keep up, in fact that can still compete reasonably well.

I don't see anything but slow build players being viable AT ALL in this game anymore, if the stat raising VAs are taken out.

Which would about totally kill the interest in the game for everyone i know who still plays lots of season 1 players that weren't slow built.

That said, i don't see how it makes players all the same...i've got a number of players that only use 1 VA stat raising skill and use 1 or 2 other special skills thta give % to FFum, or % to an SA working, or % chance of something on 3rd and 4th downs....and those players are doing great with their VA builds so far.

This whole thing sounds like a straw man to me created by slow builders being whiney bitches that they don't have a huge unfair advantage anymore.

That said, i've got a number of slow builds too now, and frankly, i like it the way it is for them too right now, most of em i'm taking 1 stat raiser on for a primary att and then it'll be special abilities with the rest of the VAs, using things like extra roll chance to catch a pass, extra bonuses towards 3rd and 4th down for CBs, extra FFum chance for LBers and DEs, all kinds of cool stuff....and my slow builds will still have an advantage over season 1 players due to that, just not quite as much as they would if there were no stat raising VAs.

Lets be honest here though, all good players of any position are the same. There is no variation anyways. And there won't be even if they remove stat VAs. Either way has no more variation than the other, it's another straw man thrown up by people trying to get some advantage for their particular toons. There is ALWAYS a "best" bulid for each position...there is NO variation. All great CBs are the same, all great linebackers are the same, all great OTs are the same.

At most there are two options for how to build for a position and each of those options has a "best build". Variation is a dumbass straw man in this game.

"best" may change 4 times a season due to half assed poorly planned changes, but there's always a best...

yeah, I think some of my season 1 builds will suffer a lot with no stat VAs. Should just leave them in until after season 10 when most of those guys retire.

there are decent arguments on both sides so whatever Bort does it will just piss off half the populace...so bidness as usual for GLB

Originally posted by Fuzzballx


Lets be honest here though, all good players of any position are the same. There is no variation anyways.

no

Originally posted by Doug_Plank
Originally posted by Fuzzballx



Lets be honest here though, all good players of any position are the same. There is no variation anyways.

no


Well jee, you're right, some people do build different....and they SUCK.

Originally posted by jrg42
yeah, I think some of my season 1 builds will suffer a lot with no stat VAs. Should just leave them in until after season 10 when most of those guys retire.

there are decent arguments on both sides so whatever Bort does it will just piss off half the populace...so bidness as usual for GLB

This being the real reason why things need to get changed for the best or GLB will not last. If he gets this fixed properly then everyone will have a chance to get things fixed accordingly. Now with season 10 looming season 1 players will start to become obsolete so why cater to them anymore. GET it fixed now before its to late.

You still didnt comment on the real reason why things are always changing.
HE NEEDS TO FIX ZONE DEFENSE. No team will be able to continue to just run man 2 man if ZONE was fixed properly. That is when different builds will become very useful. As of right now if a team runs a ZONE defense they will get beat horribly which makes him have to adjust to everything else.

VA's should have been put in just to enhance the excitment of what your player "COULD DO" at/in a certain situation NOT help fix your build that you messed up...

There are way to many teams now and it is going to get much worse before it gets better, Half of SEA PRO will now become SEA AAA and this is just 1 example.

The no need for stamina has also helped kill the game in regards to teams having a higher turnaround rate for there subs. (you dont even need to carry 2 QB's anymore).

BORT needs to do what is right for the game to progress from here and not worry about what half of the population is going to do. Most will adapt as we have for the first 8 seasons, some will leave and some will start over. All in all if he fixes this correctly he will then be putting out a better product for everyone not just the biggest whinners.

there's some amazingly dumb builds out there. i mean some real head scratchers. which i don't think any vet abilities can fix. they are beyond repair.

Originally posted by Sockamidic
Originally posted by Fuzzballx

Originally posted by Doug_Plank


Originally posted by Fuzzballx





Lets be honest here though, all good players of any position are the same. There is no variation anyways.

no


there's some amazingly dumb builds out there. i mean some real head scratchers. which i don't think any vet abilities can fix. they are beyond repair.



this is also true.... man what do some people think sometimes....