Warrior General Games

Originally posted by kostitsyn


Saying LR is useless is like saying jumping is useless. Both are situational.



Jumping

Need to lay out for a pass? Want to gain an couple extra yards on defense? Plan on swatting that ball away? Jumping is crucial to all of those things. It is also important when making diving tackles and diving for yardage when carrying the ball

Long Reach

This player has an exceptional wingspan. When failing a pass deflection check, the Long Reach ability gives this player a second chance to retry the roll. Each level gives a +3% chance to allow a second roll. This ability works only on defense.

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by kostitsyn



Saying LR is useless is like saying jumping is useless. Both are situational.



Jumping

Need to lay out for a pass? Want to gain an couple extra yards on defense? Plan on swatting that ball away? Jumping is crucial to all of those things. It is also important when making diving tackles and diving for yardage when carrying the ball

Long Reach

This player has an exceptional wingspan. When failing a pass deflection check, the Long Reach ability gives this player a second chance to retry the roll. Each level gives a +3% chance to allow a second roll. This ability works only on defense.

----Quote fails----

I dont remember the last time my CB made a diving tackle. Both to me are used to swat the ball and if you dont have the physical tools to swat the ball jumping wont do much.

Originally posted by Granted86

the fact that u believe that your natural attributes are fine at a certain level i think is ignorance



...wrong? wat im saying is you dont need 110 SPD to cover a wr with 110 speed. you need maybe 90, and a good amount of shutdown coverage. and the higher a WR takes his speed, it really doesnt matter, because he gets diminishing returns.

now before u jump on that and say its not true hear me out. 20 points is 20 points. but based on percentages ist becomes less important. if a WR has 60 SPD, and the CB has 40, then thats a big difference, but 110 compared to 90 is a much lower % advantage.

that example goes for all attributes, and i doubt that there are any high lvl WR's out there living off 90+ AGI or VIS.


Originally posted by kostitsyn
Originally posted by Granted86

Well you got my first 4, but you put them in the wrong order ...
speed is not the be all and end all, and is the most over rated attribute for cbs
the fact that u believe that your natural attributes are fine at a certain level i think is ignorance

being a great cover cb is not easy to do, but LR is a situational Va, if your CB blankets a WR, LR isnt the best option as it only makes your player better in certain situations, if you cant get the PD even when in position, u may want to try something to correct that ...



Saying LR is useless is like saying jumping is useless. Both are situational. If you cant keep up with the WR, no reason to have jumping, same with LR, that said if you can kep up with the WR, LR and jumping is deadly.

exactly. jumping and long reach both help you deflect the pass. and the way its coded, jumping probably breaks down to a similar formula to LR, giving u a % chance on your PD roll.

Originally posted by kostitsyn
Originally posted by Granted86

Originally posted by kostitsyn




Saying LR is useless is like saying jumping is useless. Both are situational.



Jumping

Need to lay out for a pass? Want to gain an couple extra yards on defense? Plan on swatting that ball away? Jumping is crucial to all of those things. It is also important when making diving tackles and diving for yardage when carrying the ball

Long Reach

This player has an exceptional wingspan. When failing a pass deflection check, the Long Reach ability gives this player a second chance to retry the roll. Each level gives a +3% chance to allow a second roll. This ability works only on defense.

----Quote fails----

I dont remember the last time my CB made a diving tackle. Both to me are used to swat the ball and if you dont have the physical tools to swat the ball jumping wont do much.

my quote cant fail, its not mine its from wiki, so are you sayin that they're definitions are wrong now?

we have already established ur cb is average at best for his level so him not making a diving tackle doesnt really mean much, and it doesnt matter what YOU THINK, the definitions are CLEAR LR ONLY helps getting another PD roll CHANCE

jumping increases your tackle radius in case you didnt know, LR doesnt do that
jumping will help pass a PD roll, LR doesnt do that

not sure about ur lvl 53 cb, but my level 42 cb has the necessary tools, obviously he has a better build than yours, but we wont get into that

Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat


...wrong? wat im saying is you dont need 110 SPD to cover a wr with 110 speed. you need maybe 90, and a good amount of shutdown coverage. and the higher a WR takes his speed, it really doesnt matter, because he gets diminishing returns.

now before u jump on that and say its not true hear me out. 20 points is 20 points. but based on percentages ist becomes less important. if a WR has 60 SPD, and the CB has 40, then thats a big difference, but 110 compared to 90 is a much lower % advantage.

that example goes for all attributes, and i doubt that there are any high lvl WR's out there living off 90+ AGI or VIS.


once again the speed part we agree on, its just everything else i disagree with

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by kostitsyn

Originally posted by Granted86


Originally posted by kostitsyn





Saying LR is useless is like saying jumping is useless. Both are situational.



Jumping

Need to lay out for a pass? Want to gain an couple extra yards on defense? Plan on swatting that ball away? Jumping is crucial to all of those things. It is also important when making diving tackles and diving for yardage when carrying the ball

Long Reach

This player has an exceptional wingspan. When failing a pass deflection check, the Long Reach ability gives this player a second chance to retry the roll. Each level gives a +3% chance to allow a second roll. This ability works only on defense.

----Quote fails----

I dont remember the last time my CB made a diving tackle. Both to me are used to swat the ball and if you dont have the physical tools to swat the ball jumping wont do much.

my quote cant fail, its not mine its from wiki, so are you sayin that they're definitions are wrong now?

we have already established ur cb is average at best for his level so him not making a diving tackle doesnt really mean much, and it doesnt matter what YOU THINK, the definitions are CLEAR LR ONLY helps getting another PD roll CHANCE

jumping increases your tackle radius in case you didnt know, LR doesnt do that
jumping will help pass a PD roll, LR doesnt do that

not sure about ur lvl 53 cb, but my level 42 cb has the necessary tools, obviously he has a better build than yours, but we wont get into that

Hum the quote fails was because een tho there was the quote thingy at the end it wouldnt work.

That said I've never said jumping was better or better or worse then LR. Cant compare skills vs VA. I've been one of the first CB to softcap jumping btw. As for my build sucking I doubt you've ever seen it and also I've always been told my build sucked, yet I might be the best true shutdown CB in GLB. Maybe I'm just lucky, my build suck, but they dont throw at me? Maybe I dont know nor do I care. As long as my guy average .5 tackles per game and 1.5-2 PD per game I'll be happy. Havent allowed one catch so far this year, and allowed 2 in post season before. I dont think there are many CB that are even on yard allowed/gained in their past 6 games, maybe more.

Originally posted by kostitsyn


Hum the quote fails was because een tho there was the quote thingy at the end it wouldnt work.


you got me there ... but een? are u dutch?

Originally posted by kostitsyn

That said I've never said jumping was better or better or worse then LR.


Neither did I, I just pointed out what they did ...

Originally posted by kostitsyn

Cant compare skills vs VA. I've been one of the first CB to softcap jumping btw.


that depends on who your comparing too ...

Originally posted by Granted86

... Jamaal has NATURAL long Reach


Originally posted by kostitsyn

As for my build sucking I doubt you've ever seen it and also I've always been told my build sucked


never said your build sucked ...

Originally posted by Granted86

not sure about ur lvl 53 cb, but my level 42 cb has the necessary tools, obviously he has a better build than yours, but we wont get into that


Originally posted by kostitsyn

yet I might be the best true shutdown CB in GLB. Maybe I'm just lucky, my build suck, but they dont throw at me?


No your CB is not "one of the best" more "one of the oldest" Created - Season 1, day 6

Originally posted by kostitsyn

Maybe I dont know nor do I care. As long as my guy average .5 tackles per game and 1.5-2 PD per game I'll be happy. Havent allowed one catch so far this year, and allowed 2 in post season before.


Your CB is Level 53 ...

Week 1 Trace Stealth - Level 47(no level 48 equipment) ... You shut him down but ... you were supposed to ...
Week 2 Lima Bean - Level 48 ... still 5 levels, which is 25 SP + natural boosts + about 16 Va's ...

My Cb Level 42 ...

Week 1 Marcus Peterson (Level 46) 2 Rec 40 Yards 1.5 YAC
Week 2 James Henderson (Level 45) 3 Rec 24 Yards 1.3 YAC
Week 3 Marvin Watson (Level 44) 0 Rec

Now Im not saying my CB is great, but yours isn't either ...

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by kostitsyn



Hum the quote fails was because een tho there was the quote thingy at the end it wouldnt work.


you got me there ... but een? are u dutch?

Originally posted by kostitsyn


That said I've never said jumping was better or better or worse then LR.


Neither did I, I just pointed out what they did ...

Originally posted by kostitsyn


Cant compare skills vs VA. I've been one of the first CB to softcap jumping btw.


that depends on who your comparing too ...

Originally posted by Granted86


... Jamaal has NATURAL long Reach


Originally posted by kostitsyn


As for my build sucking I doubt you've ever seen it and also I've always been told my build sucked


never said your build sucked ...

Originally posted by Granted86


not sure about ur lvl 53 cb, but my level 42 cb has the necessary tools, obviously he has a better build than yours, but we wont get into that


Originally posted by kostitsyn


yet I might be the best true shutdown CB in GLB. Maybe I'm just lucky, my build suck, but they dont throw at me?


No your CB is not "one of the best" more "one of the oldest" Created - Season 1, day 6

Originally posted by kostitsyn


Maybe I dont know nor do I care. As long as my guy average .5 tackles per game and 1.5-2 PD per game I'll be happy. Havent allowed one catch so far this year, and allowed 2 in post season before.


Your CB is Level 53 ...

Week 1 Trace Stealth - Level 47(no level 48 equipment) ... You shut him down but ... you were supposed to ...
Week 2 Lima Bean - Level 48 ... still 5 levels, which is 25 SP + natural boosts + about 16 Va's ...

My Cb Level 42 ...

Week 1 Marcus Peterson (Level 46) 2 Rec 40 Yards 1.5 YAC
Week 2 James Henderson (Level 45) 3 Rec 24 Yards 1.3 YAC
Week 3 Marvin Watson (Level 44) 0 Rec

Now Im not saying my CB is great, but yours isn't either ...

You said my build is average at best for my leve, to me it emans he sucks. I'm not the only one high level CB in CPL. I was on under leveled a bit back in usa pro a while ago, yet my guy would always shutdown WR pretty good. I'm just a bit more dominant, but not really more effective then when i was under leveled.

I'm not saying your build suck either, but I dont know how you can say my build is average at best when I allowed 2 catches in my last 6 games. First you've never seen it. 2 I think my build is a bit weird and not in cookie cutter, but it always worked and I dont know why it should change. I might have wasted SP here and there as we didnt know what to do at first in GLB. I think new build are better then older for this reason, but always going cookie cutter fom what worked in season 1 isnt that great. If I followed everybody I'd probably get 20 passes thrown my way per game, but I dont think it's really what im looking for.

Anyway i dont know why i even argue i dont even care about my guy or his stats or whatever... Kinda sick of the game too. Wish you best of luck with ur guy.

At some point (probably here)...
Originally posted by misled


And I'm sorry... but my CB > yours. For someone who tries to throw out the stats argument...


this conversation got way off topic lol.

tbh, its very hard to just look at stats and say whose the better corner, but thats not wat we're talking about.

Granted: regardless, of how u break down the wording, both jumping and LR help you achieve the goal of PD, instead of catch. thats why i think its useful, more so than most other VA's. there are always exceptions and we're probably not gonna convince another experienced owner how to build his player.

Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat


Granted: regardless, of how u break down the wording, both jumping and LR help you achieve the goal of PD, instead of catch. thats why i think its useful, more so than most other VA's. there are always exceptions and we're probably not gonna convince another experienced owner how to build his player.



Jumping helps to do more than just deflect passes ... and helps of deflect passes

LR does not help in PD's ... it gives you a chance at a re roll, which gives you a chance of passing the roll, that you just failed ... but it doesnt change your abilities, which is what the roll is based on to begin with, one of those abilities being jumping ...

Originally posted by kostitsyn
Anyway i dont know why i even argue i dont even care about my guy or his stats or whatever... Kinda sick of the game too. Wish you best of luck with ur guy.

im not sick of the game but goodluck with your players too

Originally posted by Granted86
Originally posted by phat_lyk_dat



Granted: regardless, of how u break down the wording, both jumping and LR help you achieve the goal of PD, instead of catch. thats why i think its useful, more so than most other VA's. there are always exceptions and we're probably not gonna convince another experienced owner how to build his player.



Jumping helps to do more than just deflect passes ... and helps of deflect passes

LR does not help in PD's ... it gives you a chance at a re roll, which gives you a chance of passing the roll, that you just failed ... but it doesnt change your abilities, which is what the roll is based on to begin with, one of those abilities being jumping ...

dude, LR helps you get PD's. i cant fathom how you are unable to agree with that statement. sure you may have failed the ROLL once, but now u have 45% at getting another roll. Its called a ROLL because its never guaranteed. every CB misses PD rolls. LR helps you get pd's simply because according to the law of averages there will be times when you will fail the PD roll/check, then u get almost a 50% shot at rolling again.

also, i think you aren't giving the VA enough credit. it says when u fail a check it gives u a % chance to reroll. now bort has said that the CB get 2 rolls anyway, so if u have 15 in LR, then its almost guaranteed that u will get 3 shots at the PD(.45+.45=.90...very good odds). possibly 4. no one really knows the formula to actually get the PD, but having 3 shots instead of 2 is a HUGE boost. the odds of u not getting the PD go WAY down with that extra shot, especially if u have good modifiers in the first place.

What I like of the re-roll is, let's say you have 70% of chance to do something, you have 30% chances to miss. If you end up in that 30% you have 45% chances at another 70% and odds are on your side that this time you'll make it.

If you are at 50%, it brings your odds around 65-70. That's 2 less catches per 10 passes thrown at you. But as I said you arent in position to make PD most of the time, or if you dont have any kind of jumping and wont be able to make PD dont go for LR.

If 20% of the time you have a shot at a PD and you have 10% od chance to make it. Going for LR is dumb and will get your odds from like 3% to 5% at best.

If you're in the receiver shoes 80% of the time, that you have a chance of 70% to make your PD. I do think getting it to nearly 100% PD rating when you can is a bit better then trying to find something that will bring your odds of having a shot at a PD from 80 to 85%.

Also it depends on your build alot. I think my build suits LR perfectly.

ye a players build has alot to do with it too... teams are starting to throw to their #1 wr less and less against my cb so a re roll wouldnt do much for jamaal right now ... but i imagine by season 11ish my cb will also have long reach(if there is no better option at that time), i just believe that if u max out speed agility, vision and jumping with vxp(or atleast to 10) that long reach would then be an AMAZING option

as for phat lyk dat

how ever you explain it, or break it down LR does NOT help you get PD's, it helps you get a CHANCE at a roll

if a roll = a PD then i would agree but its doesnt ...