Warrior General Games

Originally posted by pantherz77

Getting vision to 60 natural by level 24 does not consume that much SP. You can achieve that by level 10 if you really wanted to. He has 60 agility and I imagine at least 50 speed (probably more).

Correct.

Hmm, very true; I stand corrected. In any case, the lack of equipment in speed/agility is negatively affecting your LB moreso than any increased benefit in vision can provide. No one is saying to build vision to speed/agility levels, but to ignore it and dismiss it completely is also not recommended.

*farts*

Originally posted by wallysmith
Hmm, very true; I stand corrected. In any case, the lack of equipment in speed/agility is negatively affecting your LB moreso than any increased benefit in vision can provide. No one is saying to build vision to speed/agility levels, but to ignore it and dismiss it completely is also not recommended.

So then if jacking it up to 80 has little impact compared to 50, does changing it from 20 to 50 have any impact?

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by wallysmith

Hmm, very true; I stand corrected. In any case, the lack of equipment in speed/agility is negatively affecting your LB moreso than any increased benefit in vision can provide. No one is saying to build vision to speed/agility levels, but to ignore it and dismiss it completely is also not recommended.

So then if jacking it up to 80 has little impact compared to 50, does changing it from 20 to 50 have any impact?

My point was that an LB needs a wide range of attributes to be an effective player. A WR or CB can be relatively effective with 1 or 2 main attributes without developing the rest. You can't do that with an LB.

At level 24 if you jack up your vision to 80 its far more lopsided than if you do that with a level 34 LB (who should already have much higher attributes surrounding vision). Overloading vision on a young LB is directly taking away from the consensus top two most important attributes for that position.

Whatever the case may be, you're not going to convince me that vision is worthless and I'm not going to convince you of the opposite. We'll just have to agree to disagree in this case.

Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by Viscount

Back to my topic, What does confidence do?!



Originally posted by wallysmith
Bort's never specifically stated where it's involved, but he is on record as stating Confidence is the most underrated attribute. It's probably handled similar to "Luck" in a lot of RPG's where it has a hand in everything, but isn't the main factor in anything.

To elaborate further, it's also a "momentum" attribute. If it's low, your character's in-game morale takes bigger hits from negative events (fumbling, missed tackles, etc) and gets smaller gains from positive events (breaking tackles, scoring TD's, etc). How it specifically relates to an LB is up for discussion. I would imagine it would be safe to assume though that missing tackles is negative, while forcing turnovers are positives.

When offenses get big plays or TDs through the air:

DBs get a large morale hit (relatively large, nothing that would destroy the DBs confidence the whole game)

LBs get a slight morale hit

DL gets no morale hit (maybe a very small one, can't remember)

It's the opposite for the when the offense runs.

I remember Bort saying this a while back. Too lazy to find quote.

And, confidence's sole purpose it to reduce morale hits, so not really sure what the point of this thread is. This is true for all positions (except maybe K and QB who need it more). For LBs, it does help out with SAs if you want to go that route. More of a team oriented LB than a state based LB.

Originally posted by Viscount
As the title says, what does confidence do for an LB? I know that higher confidence lessens the amount of morale lost after a bad play such as a missed tackle, but what other benefits are there from it?


I'm very interested in this too. Confidence must have an effect because so may SA's affect morale (confidence) positively or negatively. My totally unqualified opinion is that it affects everything a little.

Originally posted by ewallguy

I'm very interested in this too. Confidence must have an effect because so may SA's affect morale (confidence) positively or negatively. My totally unqualified opinion is that it affects everything a little.


Anyone else remember that running back with like 160 broken tackles that just had stupid confidence with 15 in everything else? Might hint at it having a little benefit in everything.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by wallysmith

Hmm, very true; I stand corrected. In any case, the lack of equipment in speed/agility is negatively affecting your LB moreso than any increased benefit in vision can provide. No one is saying to build vision to speed/agility levels, but to ignore it and dismiss it completely is also not recommended.

So then if jacking it up to 80 has little impact compared to 50, does changing it from 20 to 50 have any impact?

I would say yes. When I got around to focusing on vision in my top LB's high 20 lvls I noticed a huge differance how he reacted to plays from 35 vision to soft capping vision. But the over all top 3 attributes (speed, agility and vision) was close and not lopsided as your 80 vision LB..that could be the factor.

Getting back on topic, I too remember Bort talking about Confidence being underrated a few seasons back. It was after he made the adjustment to agility in its relation to speed. Miss tackles & bad plays happen. To keep your player's moral up and for your player to "shrug off" the mistake and focus on making the next play, confidence plays a part. However at that time it was (a round a mid 20 lvl LB) thought that 30ish confidence was enough.

Originally posted by kentrol72

I would say yes. When I got around to focusing on vision in my top LB's high 20 lvls I noticed a huge differance how he reacted to plays from 35 vision to soft capping vision. But the over all top 3 attributes (speed, agility and vision) was close and not lopsided as your 80 vision LB..that could be the factor.

80/60/55 is extremely lopsided? Also has ~30 Str/Blk/Jump. Besides, that has nothing to do with it. I'm not talking about his stats, I'm talking about how quick he reacts. He reacts to plays just was quick as LB's on the same team with 30 vision.

Reaction to a play involves more than vision. You can see a play happening across the field and not have the ability to change direction (agility) with a high acceleration to get at the play. (agility/speed) I'm not sure if you've built a ROLB, but that's a must, since most of the run plays happen on the other side of the field. So if your vision is 80, you can see a play all day long but having an agility (at what the 55?) 25 points lower means your LB is gonna take 5-10 yards to make a u-turn thus reacting to a LB that has 30 vision and doesn't recognize the play until well into execution.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by kentrol72


I would say yes. When I got around to focusing on vision in my top LB's high 20 lvls I noticed a huge differance how he reacted to plays from 35 vision to soft capping vision. But the over all top 3 attributes (speed, agility and vision) was close and not lopsided as your 80 vision LB..that could be the factor.

80/60/55 is extremely lopsided? Also has ~30 Str/Blk/Jump. Besides, that has nothing to do with it. I'm not talking about his stats, I'm talking about how quick he reacts. He reacts to plays just was quick as LB's on the same team with 30 vision.

And why do you have 30 SPs in Blocking??

Originally posted by kentrol72

And why do you have 30 SPs in Blocking??

I was talking to someone when I typed that.

Meant tackling.