Warrior General Games

I laugh at the league write-up the guy does for our conference because he's actually listing us as a playoff hopeful and writing as if we give a shit about what happens. If we even half-assed our defense with the free agents available right now we would be 4-2 or 5-1, and that's pretty sad. But hey, gotta get my level 7s playing time

isn't the whole idea of an elusive back to be elusive and stay away from the tacklers and beat them with jinks, cuts and spins etc and not try to run them over

wouldn't you be better off putting your sp into soft capping vision after agility and then getting your first step and quick cut SA's up to make use of all that speed and agility.

If you bring strength up to 3:1 aren't you essentially building a combo back and not a true elusive back??

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong, but this has been the basis for my RB lvl 19 build below

Strength: 17.96
Speed: 70.96
Agility: 62.68
Jumping: 13.6
Stamina: 27.6
Vision: 29.96
Confidence: 21.96
Blocking: 13.6
Tackling: 8
Throwing: 13.6
Catching: 13.6
Carrying: 31.96
Kicking: 10
Punting: 8

elusive 3 1 1 1 1

i'm currently getting agility to 4:1 and then speed, while training carrying to 35 and then vision

yes it is the idea but i never met a rb that has never been grabbed by a dt before, so it would be nice to get away every once in a while

Originally posted by Spike25
Ok, I'm a bit of a cross-roads as to where to go with my HB:

LVL. 22

Strength 28.87 Speed 67.19 (85.19 with equipment)
Agility 64.87 Jumping 14.15
Stamina 27.91 Vision 17.87
Confidence 17.87
Blocking 14.15 Tackling 9
Throwing 14.15 Catching 14.15
Carrying 22.87 Kicking 8
Punting 9

Elusive SAs:
1-1-1-1-1 (Custom EQ)

After I get both Speed and Agility to the 4-1 cap I'm a bit stuck as to where to go from there. Do I carry on raising them to the 5-1 cap? Do I start spending on SAs?

Bear in mind I am currently training strength/carrying on intense and will continue to do so for a while, so I am unlikely to add any points into them for a while.

What do you guys and gals think?

Spike, I'm going to go ahead and reaffirm what I've told you before. You have a good elusive build without enough vision. Your vision is so low I would almost wish I could flag you so that perspective teams don't waste a roster slot. It is seriously that low.

Mathematically speaking, Spending 3 SP to level a stat is a total waste. Look at it this way: At level 25ish, it takes approximately 13 (assuming max play time) days to level. At the 3-1 cap, it takes 13 days to level the stat once while single training and getting shopping tokens. So, you can level the stat once every 13 days with exp or level once every 13 days with training (and shopping for AE) and use those 5 sp to flesh out your guy. Hopefully you can see that it is better to train a stat instead of spending 3 SP, and fleshing out vision would be the biggest improvement for your character.

LarryB: First of all, fuck off if you think my guy is too bad to be worth a roster slot. Seriously.

Good point on the training/levelling SP thingy, never thought of it that way.

I'm not gonna bother getting back into an arguement with you because it goes round in circles and we never seem to get anywhere, though I will say that I am looking at capping vision next instead of strength.

blitzer/pburgh: I just wanted to see what an RB would be like if he had an elusive build coupled with high strength. There was a guy on here that had an elusive build but power SAs like stiff arm and he did very well. I want to see if it would work, but instead of SAs, power-back-like strength.

Look here, Spike. We're not arguing anymore. I'm just showing you facts.

I'm telling you you don't have the strength/breakability to run on Power. You don't have the vision to run on Elusive. You don't have stats fleshed out enough to run on Combo. So what do you run on? Right now, combo, it seems. Your guy is stat'd out enough that you're abusing a mismatch caused by a lack of specialization on defense. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Now that we've seen facts, time for opinions!

You're getting a decent amount of ypc, but honestly you aren't getting the ball enough and I can't be sure that if you got the ball more you'd be more productive. How will you do when your energy starts dipping? You do great with low energy on blow-outs, thats for sure. But how will you do once defensive builds around you start fleshing out? You currently have more TFL than Broken Tackles, and I believe once LBs around you are faster the TFLs will increase and you'll see less broken tackles.

I'll give another opinion. One of the first things I did with my HB was soft-cap vision and so my HB has had high vision for almost his entire career. I have found little evidence in replays that it helps that much. He still gets boxed in by defensive players closing in around him. Any fast HB is going to be moving around the field so much that even with limited vision, he "sees" a lot of the field.

This is from a few games ago against an equally-matched team. He was set to Combo running at the time.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2972366 - first rush of the game, runs left instead of through the hole

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2977708 - a kick return, runs straight into the pack

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2972409 - into a group of defenders

This is with 52 vision. I don't see noticeable results that vision has helped him decide where to run.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2972366
Was a designed sweep where your RB outran his slow blocker. That hole was there because the guard pulled. If the play doesn't call for up the 3 (or 4, I can't remember) gap then he isn't going to run up it, no matter how big the hole. Vision doesn't make up for play calling.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2977708
All players do this. Even when they're set on Combo. It is smarter to get further up field and get more yards than risk it and potentially get a bad return.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2972409
I don't see anything conclusive about this run that would affect the opinion of vision. He followed his blockers, extended the run, and got tackled by players defending him correctly. One fell back to contain the play, the other tried to tackle. Tackle missed, contain man got him. Where else was he going to run?

In summary, your data is inconclusive and does little, if anything, to dispute the validity of having capped vision (or at least more than 17)

So would you suggest capping vision and then going onto 3-1 capping strength?

As for the energy statement, I'm also the kick returner so I pretty much never run on 100% energy anyway I could swicth training to stamina for a while, but that would be sacrificing my strength training, which I am pretty high on at the moment because I think strength>vision for me. I'm never gonna have enough strength to break a high-levelled, correctly-built LB or D-Lineman, but I sure as hell will be able to run round them which is where my high-strength would allow me to bowl over the CBs that are a match for me in terms of speed/agility. See where I'm going?

Originally posted by LarryB
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2972366
Was a designed sweep where your RB outran his slow blocker. That hole was there because the guard pulled. If the play doesn't call for up the 3 (or 4, I can't remember) gap then he isn't going to run up it, no matter how big the hole. Vision doesn't make up for play calling.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2977708
All players do this. Even when they're set on Combo. It is smarter to get further up field and get more yards than risk it and potentially get a bad return.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=249112&pbp_id=2972409
I don't see anything conclusive about this run that would affect the opinion of vision. He followed his blockers, extended the run, and got tackled by players defending him correctly. One fell back to contain the play, the other tried to tackle. Tackle missed, contain man got him. Where else was he going to run?

In summary, your data is inconclusive and does little, if anything, to dispute the validity of having capped vision (or at least more than 17)

I own one of the G's on my team. Would you recommend I get his speed way up so that he can help block for my RB?

Originally posted by brentlewis
I'll give another opinion. One of the first things I did with my HB was soft-cap vision and so my HB has had high vision for almost his entire career. I have found little evidence in replays that it helps that much. He still gets boxed in by defensive players closing in around him. Any fast HB is going to be moving around the field so much that even with limited vision, he "sees" a lot of the field.



This is completely flawed.

You don't seem to understand how this game works.

Vision, by itself, isn't going to do shit.

Any attribute, by itself, isn't going to do shit.

You come in here talking about you soft-capped Vision early, but you didn't notice your RB doing anything with it. But I'm guessing, by your previous posts, that you don't know how to build a player in the first place - so of course Vision wasn't going to help your player.

Tell me this isn't the product of good Vision:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=272170&pbp_id=6554013

I mean, you're the same guy that's been starting 20 different threads about some D-League RB that you made, that you think is special, just because he has more Stamina, and out-levels everyone else you're playing against.

Attributes, for the most part, don't do anything by themselves. You seem to not understand that. Read it again.

Let's say that I have a WR with 100 Speed, but nothing else is over 20. Ok. So he is horrible, he can't get open. Does that mean that Speed is worthless? That is basically what you are trying to tell us, just with a different example.

All you've done in the past 2 days, is give everyone in these forums a bunch of ridiculous misinformation, that isn't even close to being true.

Try to read more and talk less. That will work out for all of us.

Originally posted by Bukowski
Tell me this isn't the product of good Vision:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=272170&pbp_id=6554013

I would say that is a product of vision combined with high Juke/Quick Cut/Agility. Those were some amazing cuts.

I'm quite sceptical about vision as my HB seems to make good decisions with only 32 vision, these are all strong I off tackle plays from the same game:

Here he goes outside as intended by the play, then cuts in when he meets the LB:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=250639&pbp_id=6258399

This time he sees the gap and goes inside the RT rather than outside:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=250639&pbp_id=6255885

Here he's about to go inside the RT again but sees the blitzing LB and goes outside:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=250639&pbp_id=6255323

^ Yeah...I really think the jury is still out on vision.

Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by brentlewis

I'll give another opinion. One of the first things I did with my HB was soft-cap vision and so my HB has had high vision for almost his entire career. I have found little evidence in replays that it helps that much. He still gets boxed in by defensive players closing in around him. Any fast HB is going to be moving around the field so much that even with limited vision, he "sees" a lot of the field.



This is completely flawed.

You don't seem to understand how this game works.

Vision, by itself, isn't going to do shit.

Any attribute, by itself, isn't going to do shit.

You come in here talking about you soft-capped Vision early, but you didn't notice your RB doing anything with it. But I'm guessing, by your previous posts, that you don't know how to build a player in the first place - so of course Vision wasn't going to help your player.

Tell me this isn't the product of good Vision:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=272170&pbp_id=6554013

I mean, you're the same guy that's been starting 20 different threads about some D-League RB that you made, that you think is special, just because he has more Stamina, and out-levels everyone else you're playing against.

Attributes, for the most part, don't do anything by themselves. You seem to not understand that. Read it again.

Let's say that I have a WR with 100 Speed, but nothing else is over 20. Ok. So he is horrible, he can't get open. Does that mean that Speed is worthless? That is basically what you are trying to tell us, just with a different example.

All you've done in the past 2 days, is give everyone in these forums a bunch of ridiculous misinformation, that isn't even close to being true.

Try to read more and talk less. That will work out for all of us.

Shut up.