Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PackMan97
Originally posted by knudlen

Originally posted by Kung Set


route run is a major waste of points imo. you'd be better served putting the points directly into speed and agility.

Lets put some logic into this statement too. Lets say you have 61 speed and 61 agility, putting you into the 3:1 range. To raise both of them 3 points each through skill points alone, thats 18 (9+9) skill points. Now, since we've already addressed that RR is a flat bonus (and please kung, ive seen smart posts from you before, don't argue that point because its very clear) we just don't know how big that bonus is. Lets assume for the sake of an extreme example though, that 1 point in RR raises SPD and AGI .5 each. Thats an EXTREMELY conservative estimate btw. So, in order to raise them 3, we would need 6 points in RR. Thats 12 SP to raise it to 6 (1+1+2+2+3+3), over a levels worth less. That's pretty significant. if you assume a 1:1 ratio (a much more logical though obviously unprovable hypothesis), it's even more SP effective to raise it.

So really, as far as Skill Point Equivilancy, putting Route Run is more efficient than putting points in agility and speed themselves. Now of course, thats only true from the line of scrimmage to when you catch the ball. Route Run won't help you on kickoffs, or for getting any YACs, which overall makes the decision a little less clear cut. But, in terms of increasing your chances to catch the ball, Route Run is clearly both an effective SA, and once you hit 3:1, much more effective than raising the attributes themselves.

Except, let's say you take SPD/AGI to the +4 cap, that makes the points you put into RR even MORE valuable since it would cost even MORE to raise those skills! So, the higher your spd/agi, the better RR is because the more it would cost to raise spd/agi!

Hm, so after reading all this, I guess the question is just how much of a flat bonus it is (pretty sure Bort confirmed it was a flat bonus). The estimate of +1 to BOTH speed and agility seems like a little much, but I guess it's balanced out by the fact it doesn't work after the catch.

Originally posted by Kung Set

Hm, so after reading all this, I guess the question is just how much of a flat bonus it is (pretty sure Bort confirmed it was a flat bonus). The estimate of +1 to BOTH speed and agility seems like a little much, but I guess it's balanced out by the fact it doesn't work after the catch.

Well although I think Route Run is a multiplier rather than a flat bonus if it is in fact a flat bonus it's definitely more than +1. I know this partly due to the replays I posted and the fact that Bort has said that SA's give more than a simple +1 bonus.

Originally posted by Bort
I'll just say this about special abilities:

They can give you a sizable situational bonus (certainly quite a bit more than a simple +1 to an attribute might) when they work successfully, but you won't pull them off successfully every time. You can increase the chances of them working by raising their levels.

The actual amount they help you is up to you to discover. The description popups should give you a pretty good idea of what they do, though, so you're not totally blind.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=125&page=2

I don't think +1 to both is enough of a bonus.

Route Run
Level of Route Run Points
1 1
2 1
3 2
4 2
5 3
6 3
7 4
8 4
9 5
10 5

Total points to get to level 10= 30 skill points

If each level of Route Run gave +1 to agility and +1 to speed you would spend 30 points to only get 10 points of agility and speed or 20 total points. Doesn't seem to be worth it if you are below the 1st softcap. After it, the 20 total points from Route Run (+10 speed and +10 agility) would then be worth 40 skill points (since speed and agility would cost +2 skill points at this point to level)and would seem to be a more worthwhile investment. I have a hard time believing that 48 speed or agility would be considered "very low" though. I would expect the talent to be of use for people below the caps and therefore if it is a flat bonus, it would need to be worth more that +1 to each to make it worthwhile.

"very low" is mid 30's. Look at headfakes description of very low.

Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by Kung Set


Hm, so after reading all this, I guess the question is just how much of a flat bonus it is (pretty sure Bort confirmed it was a flat bonus). The estimate of +1 to BOTH speed and agility seems like a little much, but I guess it's balanced out by the fact it doesn't work after the catch.

Well although I think Route Run is a multiplier rather than a flat bonus if it is in fact a flat bonus it's definitely more than +1. I know this partly due to the replays I posted and the fact that Bort has said that SA's give more than a simple +1 bonus.

Originally posted by Bort

I'll just say this about special abilities:

They can give you a sizable situational bonus (certainly quite a bit more than a simple +1 to an attribute might) when they work successfully, but you won't pull them off successfully every time. You can increase the chances of them working by raising their levels.

The actual amount they help you is up to you to discover. The description popups should give you a pretty good idea of what they do, though, so you're not totally blind.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=125&page=2

youre quoting him out of context. thats about triggered SAs, not constant ones. route run doesnt have a 'chance' of working, it works all the time until you catch the ball. and for the love of god its a flat bonus, if it was a multiplier it would be WORSE for lower speed and agility, which is the opposite of the tool tip. Multipliers specifically say in the tooltip that it requires a high XXX to work effectively. route run says the OPPOSITE of that.

reading comprehension ftw! he tells us so little youre doing such a huge disservice to the community by basically 1) making up your mind on how YOU think something works, and 2) twisting any evidence to support your theory.

Originally posted by knudlen


reading comprehension ftw! he tells us so little youre doing such a huge disservice to the community by basically 1) making up your mind on how YOU think something works, and 2) twisting any evidence to support your theory.

Yeah, I agree. This is exactly how misinformation is spread throughout the forums, when all the culprit had to even say was "I don't know.."

But no, everyone HAS to pretend that they have every single damn answer about this game, when in fact, they're not even repeating anything Bort said, but merely just repeating some random person in some random thread, that no one can even remember anymore.

Think before you speak, people. It will save a lot of people a lot of time and effort; this is supposed to be a community, after all.

The fact is nobody knows the real effect of route run except for Bort. I personally have had a LOT of success from bumping it up and don't regret it one bit. I don't think I have the best build, but man my guy puts up consistent numbers. It's basically up to the player to choose how to build their players and you guys getting pissed at people for believing something different than another person is downright wrong.

My belief is route run is a flat bonus that works something like this.

Level 1, +.25 to Speed & Agility
Level 2, +.5 to Speed and Agility
Level 3, +1 to Speed and Agility
Level 4, +1.5 to Speed and Agility
Level 5, +2 to Speed and Agility
Level 6, +3 to Speed and Agility
Level 7, +4 to Speed and Agility
Level 8, +5 to Speed and Agility
Level 9, +6 to Speed and Agility
Level 10, +7 to Speed and Agility
Level 11, +7.25 to Speed and Agility
Level 12+, +7.5 to Speed and Agility
and ect. As SA's get past 10 they get less effective but as you bump them to higher levels they work a LOT better. This numbers can be WAY off but it has to work something like that.

The description says it is BETTER for slower and less agile players. Say a player with 10 speed had 5 in route run. That would bump them to 12 speed and agility which is a 20% boost. Obviously SP wise it is NOT worth it. But say a 100 speed and agility receiver and give him 5 points in route run. That gives him 102 each, only a 2% bump but it is MUCH more worthwhile SP wise than for the lower level player. Yet, it is move VALUABLE technically for a slower and less agile receiver. When you get to the nitty gritty it's more efficient for faster and more agile receiver than for a receiver with nothing in speed or agility.

Originally posted by bossinthe831

My belief is route run is a flat bonus that works something like this.


I've thought the same thing for a long time.

The weird thing is I have seen builds with high Route Run and similar First Step/Change Direction/Speed/Agility...but on the field they performed very differently. Now it could come down to the QB and type of passing game, but literally I've seen 1 guy look like he's running in molasses, while another guy looks like very quick and agile.

Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by knudlen



reading comprehension ftw! he tells us so little youre doing such a huge disservice to the community by basically 1) making up your mind on how YOU think something works, and 2) twisting any evidence to support your theory.

Yeah, I agree. This is exactly how misinformation is spread throughout the forums, when all the culprit had to even say was "I don't know.."

But no, everyone HAS to pretend that they have every single damn answer about this game, when in fact, they're not even repeating anything Bort said, but merely just repeating some random person in some random thread, that no one can even remember anymore.

Think before you speak, people. It will save a lot of people a lot of time and effort; this is supposed to be a community, after all.



1. I didn't claim to know how Route Run works, I was merely putting across my own thoughts.

2. How did I twist the evidence to support my theory? If you actually look at the thread I posted where Bort speaks about SAs, I believe that he is replying to Jed's post (2 posts above Borts) where Jed actually asks about how Route Run works.

Here's the link once again:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=125&page=2