Warrior General Games

Wow his cuts are way slower than my WR's and my WR has less agility.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=140473&pbp_id=4306446
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=140473&pbp_id=4307483

To that I can only say, it's not the speed of the cut, but the angle that changes with increased agility, or at least that is what I understand from the quick cut skill and from watching the game tape, though not exactly happy with that kinda generalised description.

Pehaps that is not exact, but to reference another guys comment from elsewhere, with high speed you occassionally struggle from the speed counter-acting/neutralising the benefit of the agility. A speedster will react quicker, the agility guy will react to a greater degree and will still get the seperation, just in an alternate manner.

As a build note, I boosted tonight and worked agility heavily, jumping is now also 1 point short of first softcap.

Originally posted by TtD
Third of season update.

6 games in, 39 receptions, 4 TD, 2 drops, 286.5yds.

As noted, yardage is an occassional issue as there is no deep threat from the WR, but he's proving a consistant open target for small gains.

No real highlight reel stuff but you get the occassional play where the CB is left in no mans land.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152616&pbp_id=4143364



boy he had him on that hitch

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
Am I going to find seperation in there too?


no because its spelled separation...

Currently playing with ideas for the future as far as the build, just levelled and split between upping catching a little further, finishing with agility to 2nd softcap, and working on jumping. On a stretch of gutted teams in our schedule so not facing much competition (11 receptions, 195yds, 3TD last game for example), and looking to build for the playoffs. Agility is now second softcapped and working on jumping to 2nd softcap I think will do it, then i'll softcap strength and catching.

I can see a team consisting of 1 or 2 speed WRs, a agility one and another possession. That would definitely increase passing options.

End of regular season update.

Build Status

Strength 31
Speed 51
Agility 72
Jumping 53
Stamina 34
Vision 37
Confidence 35
Catching 54
Carrying 26

Possession
4-6-3-3-3
Speedster
4-3-2-0-1

Next Points going to:Stamina>50, Strength to 40



Regular Season Stats (761 plays)

Receiving

16 games, 96 receptions, 4 drops, 936yds (58.5y/g), 3.2YAC, 12 TD

Micellaneous

11BrTk, 6 Pancakes

Team Notes

15-1 Record, Pass 38.4 Att/G (71.5% completion, 27TD, 8INT), Rush 35.4 R/G


Where things stand

Firstly, after discussion during the season, I think it worth specifying that this is a possession leaning agility build, not a speedster leaning agility build. As such, this isn't the concrete evidence of anything as regards the theory, it's just one example of making the build and analysis of the results it threw out.

Secondly, as far as things against the evidence this example provides, it should be noted this is a balanced offence on a team that is very strong for it's league. It specialises in a tidy medium/short passing game, and is using a agi(50/70)/bal.(70/70)/speed(75/55) trio of WR (in that order), so allow for some adjustment for these factors.

Strengths of the build

-Between about 20yds and 6 yds out, the build has a very high success rate on passes. I have no idea why, but there appears to be several routes where this proves true. Below 6yds we run so can't comment, but as soon as we hit the red zone, effectiveness rises.

Last game TD passes;
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152748&pbp_id=9741137
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152748&pbp_id=9741325


-It was suggested that the build would have seperation issues. I'm about ready to call this idea dead. 1 reception for every 8 plays isn't a bad average for a WR on a balanced offence. I'd comment that improvements to jumping and catching have greatly improved reliability have improved the underneath stuff drastically (see example below) and the busrt of agility seems to give decent seperation.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152748&pbp_id=9739079

Over the top on deeper passes, there is however still issues with seperation as expected, and i'll admit this is something i'm still working on as a build. The main issue seems to be the passes going astray or just being beyond reach, but it's getting better as i've worked catching up from 45 to 55.

The usual incompletions, seem to be less WR related
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152748&pbp_id=9742026


-The build has a high reception per target ratio. 96 receptions and 4 drops speaks for itself. The drops have been almost entirely WR error in 2 cases, bad throws in 2 cases, and seem somewhat random. They are primarily in big wins, but are earlier in those games, so not related to winding down.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152556&pbp_id=1234496
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152616&pbp_id=4143061
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152572&pbp_id=5216012
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152748&pbp_id=9738231


Weaknesses of the build

-This build offers little to no deep threat, except where a tackle is broken. If you need to score rapidly, it's not really a helpful build. It is very much a time management build.

-The builds lack of speed makes pick sixes a viable concern. If there is an INT, it will most likely go for a return TD. Thankfully they are few and far between.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=196518&pbp_id=8088434
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=152748&pbp_id=9738926

-The current build gives up PD frequently, although the majority of them seem to be on the occassional longer passes i've been trying. About 1 in 6 passes will be PD over the season, but good CB have been close to 1 in 3, or 1 in 4. I have a suspicion improving strength will help this somewhat, and there have been improvements recently in test scrims in terms of reducing PD.


First Season Conclusions

It's been a very solid first season with the build, and i've like what i'm seeing, but the lack of strong opponents makes me wonder about the veracity of the data. In tougher games production has been more solid since our ROT boosted, and stopped letting DEs reach our QB, so i'm hopeful, but as yet it's too early to give a definite answer. If anything, production has been better when we've been beat on, as when heavily targetted, the WR racks up constant yards chasing a game, but with cruise control who knows why this is for certain.

Next season should give better data after the reshuffle, and we have the playoffs ahead so i'll get to try a few more things yet with the build. It has been by no means a revelation as of yet, but i've seen enough to make me want to continue pushing the build for another season.

Thanks for sharing! Great stuff

TtD, that may have been me that you are thinking of with your "no trouble getting separation" comment. If so, my point really is no different than your conclusions. This type of build is great for a short/med passing game that in effect treats passes as an outside run but will lack the speed to avoid getting caught quickly after a catch.

As to why your guy might disappear in blowouts, my guess is that it's not your guys production drops off, but in those games a 70/70 WR playing as a 50/50 can still get open while your 50/70 guy starts playing like a 35/50 and that's not good enough to get open. So the other guy gets read as "more open" and gets the target. Just a guess.

I can't honestly remember who it was, but remember there were several people that voiced that concern in a number of ways .

Wow, he sounds exactly like my receiver... that was freaky

Right folks, gonna throw it out there as i'm pretty much set as far as the basic stats.

I now will have vision/jumping/catching all softcapped after the boosting this season. I have two aims this season in regards the build. I'm giving up PDs 1 in 6 passes my way, all are on tipped passes that appear to be high (ball straight at WR, gets tipped but continues along pretty much the same path), I want to reduce these. The other aim will be to get a few more passes my way, so up from the 122 of last season to around 180, what stat (not speed) do you think would help this? I'm currently split between stamina (it's at 34, I can work it up cheap and would increase plays), jumping (2:1, jump catch is also 2:1, might help with PDs), agility (3:1), Quick Cut (2:1), or Strength (at 31 and would help with PDs).

I'd consider catching, but i've recently moved it up 10 and am noticing some more PD, drops at the edges, so want to solidify what I have in terms of catching range.

Opinions people.

Route Run/Catching please.

Always have to be awkward Mob . As I said, catching is at the limit of the other stats atm so i'm not planning to work it further until I see the catches becoming more reliable again. Route Run is at 4 atm, so while an idea, i'm kinda split on it as an option.

By all means if you want to reduce PDs up catching (I did this on my experimental WR, taking his gear out of speed and putting +12 catching gear on and I actually saw a difference, including catching balls that are PD'd before I catch them. This happens once every game or 2 now.). If you don't want to, and the possession SA's are in play then get them all up to level 6 (seriously).

Will consider it Mob, atm the possession SA are at 3 for the top 3, might be an interest to try them.

As for catching, i'm kinda with the guys in the catching thread, there seems to be a zone effect created by jump/vision/catching/agility/speed that requires some semblance of balance, call it a gut feeling but I feel i'm at the spot where raising it more would put it out of balance with the other stats, it's at that breaking point now, and I get the feeling other areas deserve some work.

As far as the specific possession SA, 1 hand catch seems a bit of a silly thing for my build as it is. Very few passes my way get outside my range of catching, and I feel a little more jump would reduce those further. If the skill relies on the passes being somewhat wayward to come into effect, it's really in the wrong skill tree as it should be a speedster ability (suited to those catching deeper passes).

Jumping catch i'm tempted to work up to 6 or more, but it may be a better option after I get jumping to the 2nd soft cap. As it works with the jumping ability, I think it makes sense to get the jumping in place first to strong level to truly judge the effect of the SA. As a test case, it will be more practical to provide people an example with the developed build base to give a clear idea of whether it will be worth it.


Ideas i'm thinking of;

-Jumping to 60 softcap, then test jumping catch SA high, make a report.
-Agility to 3rd softcap (guessing this would be a rare test for a WR) and comment on results, could test route run SA or quick cut SA.
-Strength to 60, comment on build viability of high strength to help possession WR, would make the build more of a possession than agility build but could have value as a test case.


Problem is I can only take one route. Just wish I had 3 or 4 clones of the build to try out different development routes on.