I was wondering for a DT who can sack the QB / close holes / stop the runner coming to him, what option would you put for pass rushing? Evasive? Power?
TtD
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Originally posted by miked33
Originally posted by TtD
Aye, as an owner there's no way i'd keep a DT on long term as a starter if I thought he wasn't going to have solid strength as his primary stat, 70 is pretty much a minimum from lvl20 up.
That's exactly what I was told about my DE when low strength DEs were unheard of. Not saying this would work nearly as well, but innovation and taking chances are important in this game.
I won't have a low strength DE on my team either tbh, so may just be me. As an owner, I don't care about you getting e-peen stats, I care about my D-line stopping the run and applying pressure on the pass, and is the rare few low strength DE that can properly defend the run.
Originally posted by TtD
Aye, as an owner there's no way i'd keep a DT on long term as a starter if I thought he wasn't going to have solid strength as his primary stat, 70 is pretty much a minimum from lvl20 up.
That's exactly what I was told about my DE when low strength DEs were unheard of. Not saying this would work nearly as well, but innovation and taking chances are important in this game.
I won't have a low strength DE on my team either tbh, so may just be me. As an owner, I don't care about you getting e-peen stats, I care about my D-line stopping the run and applying pressure on the pass, and is the rare few low strength DE that can properly defend the run.
Motiak
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I think most low strength DEs are on teams that rely on their LBs to fill the gaps and stop the run.
miked33
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Originally posted by TtD
Originally posted by miked33
Originally posted by TtD
Aye, as an owner there's no way i'd keep a DT on long term as a starter if I thought he wasn't going to have solid strength as his primary stat, 70 is pretty much a minimum from lvl20 up.
That's exactly what I was told about my DE when low strength DEs were unheard of. Not saying this would work nearly as well, but innovation and taking chances are important in this game.
I won't have a low strength DE on my team either tbh, so may just be me. As an owner, I don't care about you getting e-peen stats, I care about my D-line stopping the run and applying pressure on the pass, and is the rare few low strength DE that can properly defend the run.
Where to start? Having a d-line that will sack the QB say once out of every 4 or 5 times you try to pass is not just an "e-peen stat". It has a huge effect on the game, from gameplanning to morale.
If you're telling me that you wouldn't let Lawrence Jackson or GReddy Twin Turbo on your team if they asked, I don't think you're being honest. If you are, you're limiting your team severely. Either way it makes very little sense to me.
I'm guessing that like most players, that you assume that it prevents pancakes. While that would be logical, the effect strength has on pancakes from the defensive side is much less than it probably should be.
Originally posted by miked33
Originally posted by TtD
Aye, as an owner there's no way i'd keep a DT on long term as a starter if I thought he wasn't going to have solid strength as his primary stat, 70 is pretty much a minimum from lvl20 up.
That's exactly what I was told about my DE when low strength DEs were unheard of. Not saying this would work nearly as well, but innovation and taking chances are important in this game.
I won't have a low strength DE on my team either tbh, so may just be me. As an owner, I don't care about you getting e-peen stats, I care about my D-line stopping the run and applying pressure on the pass, and is the rare few low strength DE that can properly defend the run.
Where to start? Having a d-line that will sack the QB say once out of every 4 or 5 times you try to pass is not just an "e-peen stat". It has a huge effect on the game, from gameplanning to morale.
If you're telling me that you wouldn't let Lawrence Jackson or GReddy Twin Turbo on your team if they asked, I don't think you're being honest. If you are, you're limiting your team severely. Either way it makes very little sense to me.
I'm guessing that like most players, that you assume that it prevents pancakes. While that would be logical, the effect strength has on pancakes from the defensive side is much less than it probably should be.
TtD
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Pancakes not something I consider, is more watching the gametape and watching the ROT walk half way across the field sideways with your speed DEs everytime they don't get a sack. Apart from the elite speed DE, who are very few and far between, the majority of other speed DE get a sack every 10 times say, the other 9 plays my HB has just walked 10+yds down the field because your DE has been beaten around like a red headed step child. Think i'll take giving up 2yds a run play for that occassional sack.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
Last edited Sep 15, 2008 13:26:33
miked33
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Originally posted by TtD
Pancakes not something I consider, is more watching the gametape and watching the ROT walk half way across the field sideways with your speed DEs everytime they don't get a sack. Apart from the elite speed DE, who are very few and far between, the majority of other speed DE get a sack every 10 times say, the other 9 plays my HB has just walked 10+yds down the field because your DE has been beaten around like a red headed step child. Think i'll take giving up 2yds a run play for that occassional sack.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
LOL are we even playing the same game here? So many exaggerations and blatant misinformation here. No time right now, but I'll be back with some real numbers in an hour or 2.
Pancakes not something I consider, is more watching the gametape and watching the ROT walk half way across the field sideways with your speed DEs everytime they don't get a sack. Apart from the elite speed DE, who are very few and far between, the majority of other speed DE get a sack every 10 times say, the other 9 plays my HB has just walked 10+yds down the field because your DE has been beaten around like a red headed step child. Think i'll take giving up 2yds a run play for that occassional sack.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
LOL are we even playing the same game here? So many exaggerations and blatant misinformation here. No time right now, but I'll be back with some real numbers in an hour or 2.
Barnsie
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Originally posted by TtD
Pancakes not something I consider, is more watching the gametape and watching the ROT walk half way across the field sideways with your speed DEs everytime they don't get a sack. Apart from the elite speed DE, who are very few and far between, the majority of other speed DE get a sack every 10 times say, the other 9 plays my HB has just walked 10+yds down the field because your DE has been beaten around like a red headed step child. Think i'll take giving up 2yds a run play for that occassional sack.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
I think that may sound good in theory, but that is not what happens. Maybe it should happen to speed/agi DEs, and that would help to balance out the DE position.
As it is now, from my experience and from watching other successful DEs, there isn't much of a downside to the non-STR build.
Pancakes not something I consider, is more watching the gametape and watching the ROT walk half way across the field sideways with your speed DEs everytime they don't get a sack. Apart from the elite speed DE, who are very few and far between, the majority of other speed DE get a sack every 10 times say, the other 9 plays my HB has just walked 10+yds down the field because your DE has been beaten around like a red headed step child. Think i'll take giving up 2yds a run play for that occassional sack.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
I think that may sound good in theory, but that is not what happens. Maybe it should happen to speed/agi DEs, and that would help to balance out the DE position.
As it is now, from my experience and from watching other successful DEs, there isn't much of a downside to the non-STR build.
Pick4six
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Originally posted by miked33
Originally posted by TtD
Pancakes not something I consider, is more watching the gametape and watching the ROT walk half way across the field sideways with your speed DEs everytime they don't get a sack. Apart from the elite speed DE, who are very few and far between, the majority of other speed DE get a sack every 10 times say, the other 9 plays my HB has just walked 10+yds down the field because your DE has been beaten around like a red headed step child. Think i'll take giving up 2yds a run play for that occassional sack.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
LOL are we even playing the same game here? So many exaggerations and blatant misinformation here. No time right now, but I'll be back with some real numbers in an hour or 2.
Sorry Ttd but you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. While I am neither defending or backing the useage of low str high agility DT's, I can say that speed rushing DE's are fantastic. Mike is right, the amount of misinformation in your words is shameful.
Just because you "think" you know best, doesnt mean that you do. Thats the bad thing about these forums, there are so many people who are so quick to shoot down an idea if it doesnt fit the way they think it does.
My DE (built with some advice from Mike) http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=371066 Led the conference in sacks two fold.
The team he is on: Loch Ness Monsters
Defense number 1 in passing yards allowed: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team_stats.pl?league_id=101&conference_id=202&stat=passing&sort=passing_yards_allowed&playoffs=0
Defense number 1 in rushing yards allowed: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team_stats.pl?league_id=101&conference_id=202&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards_allowed&playoffs=0
Thats right, 29.6 yards per game with 2 speed DE's on either end. Want to tell me/us some more about how speed rushers get dominated?
Originally posted by TtD
Pancakes not something I consider, is more watching the gametape and watching the ROT walk half way across the field sideways with your speed DEs everytime they don't get a sack. Apart from the elite speed DE, who are very few and far between, the majority of other speed DE get a sack every 10 times say, the other 9 plays my HB has just walked 10+yds down the field because your DE has been beaten around like a red headed step child. Think i'll take giving up 2yds a run play for that occassional sack.
True DE combine strength and speed, pure speed guys for the most part just aren't up to scratch and have to be carried by the rest of the D.
LOL are we even playing the same game here? So many exaggerations and blatant misinformation here. No time right now, but I'll be back with some real numbers in an hour or 2.
Sorry Ttd but you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. While I am neither defending or backing the useage of low str high agility DT's, I can say that speed rushing DE's are fantastic. Mike is right, the amount of misinformation in your words is shameful.
Just because you "think" you know best, doesnt mean that you do. Thats the bad thing about these forums, there are so many people who are so quick to shoot down an idea if it doesnt fit the way they think it does.
My DE (built with some advice from Mike) http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=371066 Led the conference in sacks two fold.
The team he is on: Loch Ness Monsters
Defense number 1 in passing yards allowed: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team_stats.pl?league_id=101&conference_id=202&stat=passing&sort=passing_yards_allowed&playoffs=0
Defense number 1 in rushing yards allowed: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team_stats.pl?league_id=101&conference_id=202&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards_allowed&playoffs=0
Thats right, 29.6 yards per game with 2 speed DE's on either end. Want to tell me/us some more about how speed rushers get dominated?
miked33
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OK, let's take a team like the Chicago Mustangs of USA Pro. Lawrence Jackson, Minister of Defense, and Gaines Adams are their DEs. All 3 are in the top 10 for DEs in the game imo, and all relatively low strength builds based on their scouting bars and replays. Here's how much they got run over this season:
Rushing yards against: 357.5
Carries against: 452, 28.25/game
Yards per carry: .79
By far the best in their league. Those numbers include sacks, so let's subtract those out.
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 960
Carries against minus sacks: 329, 20.56/game
Yards per carry against: 2.91
Even subtracting their sack yardage without subtracting any other team's sack yardage, that puts them at 8th in rushing yards against, in the toughest league in the game. If you add in the sack yardage for everyone else, they're the 2nd best team against the run. Second also to the also speed/sack heavy South Bay Spartans. Their DEs must get picked up and carried on the OT's back of the stadium on every run play. Teams must run 9 out of 10 plays right at the DEs for 10 yards at a time, right? While the rest of the team just stands around and watches in amazement? Or maybe just the rest of their defense is super human and can be successful with only 9 players?
Just for fun, let's compare how your team does against the run compared to my DE's. Of course we're in 2 different leagues (mine is the one your team would be promoted to) but just to see how big of a liability my DE is:
Alpine Golfers:
Rushing yards against: 519.5
Carries against: 453
Yards per carry against: 1.15
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1063.5
Carries against minus sacks: 338
Yards per carry against: 3.15
Anchorage Maulers:
Rushing yards against: 1517
Carries against: 419
Yards per carry against: 3.62
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1583.5
Carries against minus sacks: 413
Yards per carry against: 3.83
Any other questions?
Rushing yards against: 357.5
Carries against: 452, 28.25/game
Yards per carry: .79
By far the best in their league. Those numbers include sacks, so let's subtract those out.
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 960
Carries against minus sacks: 329, 20.56/game
Yards per carry against: 2.91
Even subtracting their sack yardage without subtracting any other team's sack yardage, that puts them at 8th in rushing yards against, in the toughest league in the game. If you add in the sack yardage for everyone else, they're the 2nd best team against the run. Second also to the also speed/sack heavy South Bay Spartans. Their DEs must get picked up and carried on the OT's back of the stadium on every run play. Teams must run 9 out of 10 plays right at the DEs for 10 yards at a time, right? While the rest of the team just stands around and watches in amazement? Or maybe just the rest of their defense is super human and can be successful with only 9 players?
Just for fun, let's compare how your team does against the run compared to my DE's. Of course we're in 2 different leagues (mine is the one your team would be promoted to) but just to see how big of a liability my DE is:
Alpine Golfers:
Rushing yards against: 519.5
Carries against: 453
Yards per carry against: 1.15
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1063.5
Carries against minus sacks: 338
Yards per carry against: 3.15
Anchorage Maulers:
Rushing yards against: 1517
Carries against: 419
Yards per carry against: 3.62
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1583.5
Carries against minus sacks: 413
Yards per carry against: 3.83
Any other questions?
dontmeswidme
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Originally posted by miked33
OK, let's take a team like the Chicago Mustangs of USA Pro. Lawrence Jackson, Minister of Defense, and Gaines Adams are their DEs. All 3 are in the top 10 for DEs in the game imo, and all relatively low strength builds based on their scouting bars and replays. Here's how much they got run over this season:
Rushing yards against: 357.5
Carries against: 452, 28.25/game
Yards per carry: .79
By far the best in their league. Those numbers include sacks, so let's subtract those out.
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 960
Carries against minus sacks: 329, 20.56/game
Yards per carry against: 2.91
Even subtracting their sack yardage without subtracting any other team's sack yardage, that puts them at 8th in rushing yards against, in the toughest league in the game. If you add in the sack yardage for everyone else, they're the 2nd best team against the run. Second also to the also speed/sack heavy South Bay Spartans. Their DEs must get picked up and carried on the OT's back of the stadium on every run play. Teams must run 9 out of 10 plays right at the DEs for 10 yards at a time, right? While the rest of the team just stands around and watches in amazement? Or maybe just the rest of their defense is super human and can be successful with only 9 players?
Just for fun, let's compare how your team does against the run compared to my DE's. Of course we're in 2 different leagues (mine is the one your team would be promoted to) but just to see how big of a liability my DE is:
Alpine Golfers:
Rushing yards against: 519.5
Carries against: 453
Yards per carry against: 1.15
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1063.5
Carries against minus sacks: 338
Yards per carry against: 3.15
Anchorage Maulers:
Rushing yards against: 1517
Carries against: 419
Yards per carry against: 3.62
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1583.5
Carries against minus sacks: 413
Yards per carry against: 3.83
Any other questions?
how much strength is a relatively small amount of strength? haha
OK, let's take a team like the Chicago Mustangs of USA Pro. Lawrence Jackson, Minister of Defense, and Gaines Adams are their DEs. All 3 are in the top 10 for DEs in the game imo, and all relatively low strength builds based on their scouting bars and replays. Here's how much they got run over this season:
Rushing yards against: 357.5
Carries against: 452, 28.25/game
Yards per carry: .79
By far the best in their league. Those numbers include sacks, so let's subtract those out.
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 960
Carries against minus sacks: 329, 20.56/game
Yards per carry against: 2.91
Even subtracting their sack yardage without subtracting any other team's sack yardage, that puts them at 8th in rushing yards against, in the toughest league in the game. If you add in the sack yardage for everyone else, they're the 2nd best team against the run. Second also to the also speed/sack heavy South Bay Spartans. Their DEs must get picked up and carried on the OT's back of the stadium on every run play. Teams must run 9 out of 10 plays right at the DEs for 10 yards at a time, right? While the rest of the team just stands around and watches in amazement? Or maybe just the rest of their defense is super human and can be successful with only 9 players?
Just for fun, let's compare how your team does against the run compared to my DE's. Of course we're in 2 different leagues (mine is the one your team would be promoted to) but just to see how big of a liability my DE is:
Alpine Golfers:
Rushing yards against: 519.5
Carries against: 453
Yards per carry against: 1.15
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1063.5
Carries against minus sacks: 338
Yards per carry against: 3.15
Anchorage Maulers:
Rushing yards against: 1517
Carries against: 419
Yards per carry against: 3.62
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1583.5
Carries against minus sacks: 413
Yards per carry against: 3.83
Any other questions?
how much strength is a relatively small amount of strength? haha
miked33
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Originally posted by dontmeswidme
Originally posted by miked33
OK, let's take a team like the Chicago Mustangs of USA Pro. Lawrence Jackson, Minister of Defense, and Gaines Adams are their DEs. All 3 are in the top 10 for DEs in the game imo, and all relatively low strength builds based on their scouting bars and replays. Here's how much they got run over this season:
Rushing yards against: 357.5
Carries against: 452, 28.25/game
Yards per carry: .79
By far the best in their league. Those numbers include sacks, so let's subtract those out.
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 960
Carries against minus sacks: 329, 20.56/game
Yards per carry against: 2.91
Even subtracting their sack yardage without subtracting any other team's sack yardage, that puts them at 8th in rushing yards against, in the toughest league in the game. If you add in the sack yardage for everyone else, they're the 2nd best team against the run. Second also to the also speed/sack heavy South Bay Spartans. Their DEs must get picked up and carried on the OT's back of the stadium on every run play. Teams must run 9 out of 10 plays right at the DEs for 10 yards at a time, right? While the rest of the team just stands around and watches in amazement? Or maybe just the rest of their defense is super human and can be successful with only 9 players?
Just for fun, let's compare how your team does against the run compared to my DE's. Of course we're in 2 different leagues (mine is the one your team would be promoted to) but just to see how big of a liability my DE is:
Alpine Golfers:
Rushing yards against: 519.5
Carries against: 453
Yards per carry against: 1.15
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1063.5
Carries against minus sacks: 338
Yards per carry against: 3.15
Anchorage Maulers:
Rushing yards against: 1517
Carries against: 419
Yards per carry against: 3.62
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1583.5
Carries against minus sacks: 413
Yards per carry against: 3.83
Any other questions?
how much strength is a relatively small amount of strength? haha
I could be wrong about this, but if I had to guess I'd say that none of you guys (Jackson, Minister, and Adams) have more than 55ish strength, from the 48 cap plus automatic level ups.
Anyway, this has gotten way off topic. My point is that being closed minded about builds before trying them as an owner can only hurt the team and the game in general.
Originally posted by miked33
OK, let's take a team like the Chicago Mustangs of USA Pro. Lawrence Jackson, Minister of Defense, and Gaines Adams are their DEs. All 3 are in the top 10 for DEs in the game imo, and all relatively low strength builds based on their scouting bars and replays. Here's how much they got run over this season:
Rushing yards against: 357.5
Carries against: 452, 28.25/game
Yards per carry: .79
By far the best in their league. Those numbers include sacks, so let's subtract those out.
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 960
Carries against minus sacks: 329, 20.56/game
Yards per carry against: 2.91
Even subtracting their sack yardage without subtracting any other team's sack yardage, that puts them at 8th in rushing yards against, in the toughest league in the game. If you add in the sack yardage for everyone else, they're the 2nd best team against the run. Second also to the also speed/sack heavy South Bay Spartans. Their DEs must get picked up and carried on the OT's back of the stadium on every run play. Teams must run 9 out of 10 plays right at the DEs for 10 yards at a time, right? While the rest of the team just stands around and watches in amazement? Or maybe just the rest of their defense is super human and can be successful with only 9 players?
Just for fun, let's compare how your team does against the run compared to my DE's. Of course we're in 2 different leagues (mine is the one your team would be promoted to) but just to see how big of a liability my DE is:
Alpine Golfers:
Rushing yards against: 519.5
Carries against: 453
Yards per carry against: 1.15
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1063.5
Carries against minus sacks: 338
Yards per carry against: 3.15
Anchorage Maulers:
Rushing yards against: 1517
Carries against: 419
Yards per carry against: 3.62
Rushing yards against minus sack yardage: 1583.5
Carries against minus sacks: 413
Yards per carry against: 3.83
Any other questions?
how much strength is a relatively small amount of strength? haha
I could be wrong about this, but if I had to guess I'd say that none of you guys (Jackson, Minister, and Adams) have more than 55ish strength, from the 48 cap plus automatic level ups.
Anyway, this has gotten way off topic. My point is that being closed minded about builds before trying them as an owner can only hurt the team and the game in general.
TtD
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Think I specified they could work with perfect builds and the right support, but it's my personal choice to go for balanced DE as an owner, not surprised i've been jumped on by the DE squad but i'll leave things as is. As for the figures, lies, damned lies and statistics. You give me one speed guy that works, I can give you a balanced guy, we can argue league strength and stats all day long, end result, i'll stick with my choice, it's worked particularly well for me and I see no evidence to the contrary to make me want to change, i've checked out endless game tape and builds and for the setup I play a balanced DE will outperform a speed DE every time (and yes i've tried a speed DE in the system).
EDIT: For interest sake, what was the total rushing yards for A#7 vs BBB#13 last year, they've been pretty even leagues strength-wise until this years mass exodus from the #13 (7 teams lost in the West this season I think
). I know we've sent up two strong rushing teams this season and last in Austin and Tucson so it'll be interesting how things pan out.
ON TOPIC: Just can't invision an agility/speed DT doing anything due to the nature of their position, we have a backup DT with only 60 strength and high agility/speed who does reasonably well but against strong lines he crumbles.
EDIT: For interest sake, what was the total rushing yards for A#7 vs BBB#13 last year, they've been pretty even leagues strength-wise until this years mass exodus from the #13 (7 teams lost in the West this season I think
). I know we've sent up two strong rushing teams this season and last in Austin and Tucson so it'll be interesting how things pan out.ON TOPIC: Just can't invision an agility/speed DT doing anything due to the nature of their position, we have a backup DT with only 60 strength and high agility/speed who does reasonably well but against strong lines he crumbles.
miked33
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Originally posted by TtD
Think I specified they could work with perfect builds and the right support, but it's my personal choice to go for balanced DE as an owner, not surprised i've been jumped on by the DE squad but i'll leave things as is. As for the figures, lies, damned lies and statistics. You give me one speed guy that works, I can give you a balanced guy, we can argue league strength and stats all day long, end result, i'll stick with my choice, it's worked particularly well for me and I see no evidence to the contrary to make me want to change, i've checked out endless game tape and builds and for the setup I play a balanced DE will outperform a speed DE every time (and yes i've tried a speed DE in the system).
EDIT: For interest sake, what was the total rushing yards for A#7 vs BBB#13 last year, they've been pretty even leagues strength-wise until this years mass exodus from the #13 (7 teams lost in the West this season I think ). I know we've sent up two strong rushing teams this season and last in Austin and Tucson so it'll be interesting how things pan out.
ON TOPIC: Just can't invision an agility/speed DT doing anything due to the nature of their position, we have a backup DT with only 60 strength and high agility/speed who does reasonably well but against strong lines he crumbles.
I'm not sure anyone we've talked about so far has perfect builds or support. Show me a team/league where your earlier claims are even close to true (a speed DE being a major liability against the run) and we'll talk.
Think I specified they could work with perfect builds and the right support, but it's my personal choice to go for balanced DE as an owner, not surprised i've been jumped on by the DE squad but i'll leave things as is. As for the figures, lies, damned lies and statistics. You give me one speed guy that works, I can give you a balanced guy, we can argue league strength and stats all day long, end result, i'll stick with my choice, it's worked particularly well for me and I see no evidence to the contrary to make me want to change, i've checked out endless game tape and builds and for the setup I play a balanced DE will outperform a speed DE every time (and yes i've tried a speed DE in the system).
EDIT: For interest sake, what was the total rushing yards for A#7 vs BBB#13 last year, they've been pretty even leagues strength-wise until this years mass exodus from the #13 (7 teams lost in the West this season I think
). I know we've sent up two strong rushing teams this season and last in Austin and Tucson so it'll be interesting how things pan out.ON TOPIC: Just can't invision an agility/speed DT doing anything due to the nature of their position, we have a backup DT with only 60 strength and high agility/speed who does reasonably well but against strong lines he crumbles.
I'm not sure anyone we've talked about so far has perfect builds or support. Show me a team/league where your earlier claims are even close to true (a speed DE being a major liability against the run) and we'll talk.
AnTiNiNjA
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Originally posted by TtD
Think I specified they could work with perfect builds and the right support, but it's my personal choice to go for balanced DE as an owner, not surprised i've been jumped on by the DE squad but i'll leave things as is. As for the figures, lies, damned lies and statistics. You give me one speed guy that works, I can give you a balanced guy, we can argue league strength and stats all day long, end result, i'll stick with my choice, it's worked particularly well for me and I see no evidence to the contrary to make me want to change, i've checked out endless game tape and builds and for the setup I play a balanced DE will outperform a speed DE every time (and yes i've tried a speed DE in the system).
EDIT: For interest sake, what was the total rushing yards for A#7 vs BBB#13 last year, they've been pretty even leagues strength-wise until this years mass exodus from the #13 (7 teams lost in the West this season I think ). I know we've sent up two strong rushing teams this season and last in Austin and Tucson so it'll be interesting how things pan out.
ON TOPIC: Just can't invision an agility/speed DT doing anything due to the nature of their position, we have a backup DT with only 60 strength and high agility/speed who does reasonably well but against strong lines he crumbles.
Unless you are running a 3-4 you are definitely using your DEs wrong. That is a base defense that is made for str/balanced DEs.
Think I specified they could work with perfect builds and the right support, but it's my personal choice to go for balanced DE as an owner, not surprised i've been jumped on by the DE squad but i'll leave things as is. As for the figures, lies, damned lies and statistics. You give me one speed guy that works, I can give you a balanced guy, we can argue league strength and stats all day long, end result, i'll stick with my choice, it's worked particularly well for me and I see no evidence to the contrary to make me want to change, i've checked out endless game tape and builds and for the setup I play a balanced DE will outperform a speed DE every time (and yes i've tried a speed DE in the system).
EDIT: For interest sake, what was the total rushing yards for A#7 vs BBB#13 last year, they've been pretty even leagues strength-wise until this years mass exodus from the #13 (7 teams lost in the West this season I think
). I know we've sent up two strong rushing teams this season and last in Austin and Tucson so it'll be interesting how things pan out.ON TOPIC: Just can't invision an agility/speed DT doing anything due to the nature of their position, we have a backup DT with only 60 strength and high agility/speed who does reasonably well but against strong lines he crumbles.
Unless you are running a 3-4 you are definitely using your DEs wrong. That is a base defense that is made for str/balanced DEs.
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Originally posted by miked33
I could be wrong about this, but if I had to guess I'd say that none of you guys (Jackson, Minister, and Adams) have more than 55ish strength, from the 48 cap plus automatic level ups.
just want to get this one in...
i have more than 55 strength.
sorry for drifting off topic.
I could be wrong about this, but if I had to guess I'd say that none of you guys (Jackson, Minister, and Adams) have more than 55ish strength, from the 48 cap plus automatic level ups.
just want to get this one in...
i have more than 55 strength.
sorry for drifting off topic.
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