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skel1977
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Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by skel1977

If you run a lot of routes then vision is important.


How do you actually know that?



Just making an educated guess based on my own players and team members did. I could be wrong of course as I dont know it to be fact.


Last edited Sep 10, 2008 10:28:11
 
Iversen
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Does it make sense that a WR should have vision ?
 
skel1977
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Is that a sarcastic question
 
Iversen
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Well I'm just sayin , Bort says that if it makes sense it's probably true . Do a WR need vision (awareness) ? I would say yes . someone put out flames' WRs as an example . Do you even know why he has that low vision ? http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=989768

Because it's broke , so I'm starting to think that you don't really need it at the moment . But don't come whining about it later on when vision gets fixed
 
Viscount
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Originally posted by skel1977

Just making an educated guess based on my own players and team members did. I could be wrong of course as I dont know it to be fact.


I was just asking because as I've said before my WR played well with only 22 vision.

Originally posted by Iversen5771
Well I'm just sayin , Bort says that if it makes sense it's probably true . Do a WR need vision (awareness) ? I would say yes . someone put out flames' WRs as an example . Do you even know why he has that low vision ? http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=989768

Because it's broke , so I'm starting to think that you don't really need it at the moment . But don't come whining about it later on when vision gets fixed


Yeah it's a well known fact that vision and elusive are broken, and flames has been saying it for ages.
I've been posting in the WR forum for most of the season that WRs don't need vision, since my WR had a succesful season with low vision.
As for whining IF it gets fixed, I won't, I'll be happy once it's actually fixed.
Last edited Sep 10, 2008 11:51:14
 
Iversen
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Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by skel1977


Just making an educated guess based on my own players and team members did. I could be wrong of course as I dont know it to be fact.


I was just asking because as I've said before my WR played well with only 22 vision.

Originally posted by Iversen5771

Well I'm just sayin , Bort says that if it makes sense it's probably true . Do a WR need vision (awareness) ? I would say yes . someone put out flames' WRs as an example . Do you even know why he has that low vision ? http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=989768

Because it's broke , so I'm starting to think that you don't really need it at the moment . But don't come whining about it later on when vision gets fixed


Yeah it's a well known fact that vision and elusive are broken, and flames has been saying it for ages.
I've been posting in the WR forum for most of the season that WRs don't need vision, since my WR had a succesful season with low vision.
As for whining IF it gets fixed, I won't, I'll be happy once it's actually fixed.


Yeah as it is now you don't NEED high vision , but I think it helps as I've seen WRs perform well with high vision . And WHEN the vision gets fixed I'm gonna be a beast

And to the whining: wasn't really reffering to you , just the 1000 low vision WRs & HBs out there that's gonna make a ton of threads in bugs forum and such . I can't wait
 
Djinnt
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Logically:

Separation - Have to be fast enough to outrun your defender(speed), quick enough to accelerate before/beyond your defender (speed/agility), smart enough as a WR to know your route and run it without hesitation off the line (no GLB association, probably automatic?)

Depending on coverage, just like in normal football, certain routes will get you separation without any athletic ability aside from knowing your route and executing it correctly.

Catching - Knowing where the ball will be going in your route (catching), seeing it coming - most importantly during the last couple seconds (vision), turning toward the ball with appropriate timing(agility, perhaps catching, perhaps vision), the know-how of catching - putting it into your hands and not against your body - something typically learned through the experience of catching the ball over and over(catching), and finally the ability to continue your stride after the catch instead of standing there like a sore thumb (catching, agility).

Perfect passes are obviously easier to catch. High passes will have to be accounted for by jumping athleticism, which would take into account catching, vision, jumping, and probably agility as well.

YAC - Most receivers, commentators, and general critics of the sport do not consider YAC stats to be nearly as important as simply catching the ball and making the initial pass yards. However, in order to achieve high YAC a number of options are available: Juking your back's ankles out from beneath him - my favorite (agility, speed, carrying, vision), powering your way through -likely more difficult for a WR to focus on considering their emphasis on elusiveness and speed (strength, carrying, agility), or finding that sweet spot to just catch the ball and run it in - usually related to the level of competition (vision, catching, speed, agility)

In my opinion, running style has a lot more to do with powering through for WRs. CBs don't have a tremendous amount of strength, nor do wide receivers; what makes the CBs tackle effective isn't their strength though, it's the velocity at which they tackle, their ability to wrap up your limbs, and the angle they know to come at you. Vision may have a part in seeing and avoiding these things, maybe agility.

Sorry if that was long-winded, but
Agree/disagree?


Edit: Obviously WRs can perform well without being mindful of any sort of natural logic considering this is a game of checks and balances, for the player, his competition, and teammates. What I'm trying to point out is the possible logic behind the programming/vision/direction of the game. If you disagree just say so, I won't be offended. :-p
Last edited Sep 10, 2008 13:43:55
 
Viscount
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Great post. I agree.

Only thing I'd mention is that as Bort has said players running with ball use their vision to perceive the greatest threat on defence. So players with high vision perceive everyone as a big threat, which is why they start stuttering as they're confused with who to avoid. So I think players with relatively low vision only see the nearest defender as a threat, so they only focus on getting past them and then the next defender closest to them after that.
Last edited Sep 10, 2008 14:23:57
 
TtD
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I'm somewhat split when it comes to vision, have seen solid performances from WR with only 30 odd vision and little change from those with more. Would of course want to study it more carefully before making comment but would assume it'd be a pretty useful build addition.
 
Djinnt
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Originally posted by Viscount
Great post. I agree.

Only thing I'd mention is that as Bort has said players running with ball use their vision to perceive the greatest threat on defence. So players with high vision perceive everyone as a big threat, which is why they start stuttering as they're confused with who to avoid. So I think players with relatively low vision only see the nearest defender as a threat, so they only focus on getting past them and then the next defender closest to them after that.


I run on combo to get around that. Elusive just seems to need several more tweaks before it works appropriately, and if it ever did I'd use it in a heartbeat because that's what WRs are for - being elusive.
 
Iversen
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Good post DW , but I think I have something to add to some of it.

As I see it you're also gonna need vision to get open , recognizing what kind of defense the opponent run (man, zone, double coverage) and adjust to this . I'm not at all sure this is how it works , but that's just what I would guess it is .

High vision = clever football player ?

If it doesn't work like this at the moment I would think this is where Bort wants it to go .
 
persianas
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nice insight
 
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Bort has the vision thing on his radar.... just read a post he made in a thread in the suggestions forum... I expect it will be fixed/ tweaked /upgraded soon.... we can hope!
 
XUMuskie85
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I increased my vision from 30 to 40 and saw a great decrease in drops.
 
n:iceman:16
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Originally posted by skel1977
Originally posted by Viscount

Originally posted by skel1977


If you run a lot of routes then vision is important.


How do you actually know that?

Originally posted by balony_pony16


just make your man fast so the defense needs vision to see him


I guess that's what flames did:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=124758&playoffs=0

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=124759&playoffs=0

Looking at his WRs I gues you don't need much vision or agilitiy.


Well they went all out on speed and it worked for the first 3 season until bort nerfed speed and buffed up agility. After that their statistical numbers declined.


More accurately, it costs more points for him to get his speed from 80 to 90 than it did for him to get it from 40 to 50.
 
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