Warrior General Games

Originally posted by lardaddy
where do yall land on pancake on a blocking FB? blocking TE?

in my experience those are about the only two positions where it seems to have value

I'd lke to think they can get out on the edge quicker against smaller positions. Then it would be easier to win a pancake roll with a 280? pound monster against a 210 Strength CB.

Originally posted by lardaddy
where do yall land on pancake on a blocking FB? blocking TE?

in my experience those are about the only two positions where it seems to have value

I'd rather have high Get Low, First Step and Cut Block. And save the extra SP not paying double for cake.

280 lb TE vs 330 lb DE, you're really just hoping for push and/or a cut. Weight matchup is a little better at FB, but again, rarely going to have much advantage vs HH LB on Str.

Versus 'squishies' on the edge, if they're playing GLTE3 or something? They'll cake them in a heartbeat already. Pancake has always felt like a 'win more' skill, where you're maybe caking someone on a screen / rollout / etc. one tick faster. But then you're at zero speed.

First Step and Cut, is what often lets them take out a second defender, since they'll be speed zero after caking that first dot, get FStep to fire, and then with that burst, hopefully get their hands on someone else, just as the back gets there, often triggering Cut Blk. Just my 2c, YMMV.

So no pancake then

Friggin Eh I hate everything

I know this is about the worst but is there a list of the best for each position somewhere?

BHall's 'worthy SAs' list from the old build advice forum. Which has been dead since like S40, so take with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by bhall43

QB: Pocket Presence, Tight Spiral, Pump Fake

RQB: Spin, Juke, Head Fake, Power Thru, Lower the Shoulder, Stiff Arm, Quick Cut, Demoralize (I also find Surge nice but some disagree)

Elusive Back: Spin, Juke, Head Fake, Quick Cut (Anything from the bottom tree as well)

Power Back HB/FB: The entire bottom tree, Surge, Hurdle (pretty much anything from the top tree outside of First Step)

Scat Back HB/FB: First step, Route Run, Scat Back, Sticky Hands, and then anything break tackle/fake related in the other backs mentioned above depending on build.

Speed WR: Juke, Head Fake, Catch Fake, First Step, Quick Cut, and then you could make arguments for Route Run or Sticky Hands.

Possession WR: Really depends on the build but Route Run and Sticky Hands are the obvious ones. Jump Catch maybe. Then any fake skills.

Power WR: Spin, Juke, Catch Fake, Lower the Shoulder, Power Thru, First Step, Head Fake (really a lot of debate on pretty much any of this but I would go with these for now over anything else)

Power TE: Lower the Shoulder for sure. Route Run, Quick Cut, and Sticky Hands I guess since they are in the tree. Then anything I listed above for WR here.

Rec TE: Quick Cut, Route Run, Sticky Hands for sure. First Step and Juke and/or Catch fake are large ones after.

Blk TE/FB: Pancake, Cut block, Lead Block, Get Low, Run Block, First Step, Spot Blitz (also note: Pummel and Aura of Intimidation)

Oline: Pancake, Get Low, Run Bock, Pass Block, First Step (OG's only), Shock Block, Protect (LT's only) (also note: Pummel and Aura of Intimidation)

DT: Wall, Break Thru, Shed Blocks, First Step, Swat Ball (supporting a PD line), Strong Base, Relentless Pursuit, Tunnel Vision (also note: Aura of Intimidation)

DE: The whole bottom tree, Relentless Pursuit, Swat Ball (supporting a PD line), Strong Base (strength DE), Wall (Strength DE) (also note: Aura of intimidation)

Cover CB: Swat Ball, Super Vision, Change Direction, First Step, Sticky Hands (INT CB), Shut Down Corner

Hard Hitter CB: Possibly Jackhammer, Monster Hit, Big Hit, Head Hunter, then kinda pick and choose from the regular CB stuff.

Blitz CB: First Step, Change Direction, Disguise Blitz, Head of Steam, Tunnel Vision, Blitz, Big Sack, Monster Hit, Head Hunter

SS: Zone Specialist, and then the top tree all good in their own way, Sticky Hands (INT SS), Bottom tree all good except Growl, First Step

FS: Zone Specialist, and then the top tree all good in their own way except maybe SDC, Bottom tree all good except Growl, Sticky Hands (INT FS)

LB: Use CB references accordingly imo between HH and Cover

Blitzing LB: First Step, Disguise Blitz, Head of Steam, Shed Blocks, Big Sack, Monster Hit, Tunnel Vision

K and P: All their SA's except Automatic for Kickers

Thanks. I realize not much has changed but if anything has most won’t share lol

No automatic for kickers though?

alright so back to pancake it is.

Lovin the forum advice as usual

for OT that play ROT, Foundation is an excellent SA (compared with no focus blocking and Pocket Defender VA).

Originally posted by Kenshinzen
for OT that play ROT, Foundation is an excellent SA (compared with no focus blocking and Pocket Defender VA).


Thanks - that's very good to know

why is Slot Machine limited to WR3? it should work like Go to Guy, where it's only effective for one player during a play, but could work at either WR3 or WR4.

Originally posted by melon27
alright so back to pancake it is.

Lovin the forum advice as usual

One is a 70 seasons old list from bhall. The other is my personal recommendation. Take that as you will.

FWIW, I'd rather not spend the points on Pancake, and put those points to better use for my offense. As always, your mileage may vary. And yeah, Ken has a very good point - the lack of Foundation being listed seems like a glaring omission for how well it works stopping fast blitzers / DL.

The 'possibly' on Jackhammer is a head scratcher. The SA list there, sounds more like they were getting used like STOPs. JH is absolutely necessary on any good KL dot.

Fake skills on a possWR is useless as tits on a bull, if you're building true possWRs. My guess is bhall was building speedsters with slightly higher catching type possession ones, was a different era.

For the D section, dive tackle seems like a glaring omission as well. Especially considering that list came from the 'slam ball' era of dotball.

There's a few more I disagree with as well, but it's at least a good starting point, for people who've been away for awhile.

I see a lot of questionable advice on the list but this one sticks out to me.

"their SA's except Automatic for Kickers" why?

Originally posted by Fred Ex
I see a lot of questionable advice on the list but this one sticks out to me.

I was obviously very wrong about Demoralize - my bad, everyone

Pummel for pee wee
The general SAs are also a joke imo.

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