I had a power HB with Hurdle and 40 Jumping once. Hurdle seemed to fire, but not as much as I would've preferred. So 40 at an absolute bare minimum, but you should probably go higher.
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Originally posted by Novus
I had a power HB with Hurdle and 40 Jumping once. Hurdle seemed to fire, but not as much as I would've preferred. So 40 at an absolute bare minimum, but you should probably go higher.
Hurdle will fire even if you have minimum jumping. However, how "often" it fires is significantly less than if you have 20 in it... 40> 20 so more firing... 60>40, ect, ect, ect. Here's the catch though. I am pretty sure there's a "buffer" on how often it fires in a game... and I really haven't taken the time to count the number of times it fires and link that to the jump skill number... but it seems like there's not a huge difference once you get to 50 and beyond. Maybe 80 gets you 2 more firings per game (than 50 does)? Maybe? That's a LOT of Sp's/training for very minimal gain. IMHO.
50 is usually where I stop.
I had a power HB with Hurdle and 40 Jumping once. Hurdle seemed to fire, but not as much as I would've preferred. So 40 at an absolute bare minimum, but you should probably go higher.
Hurdle will fire even if you have minimum jumping. However, how "often" it fires is significantly less than if you have 20 in it... 40> 20 so more firing... 60>40, ect, ect, ect. Here's the catch though. I am pretty sure there's a "buffer" on how often it fires in a game... and I really haven't taken the time to count the number of times it fires and link that to the jump skill number... but it seems like there's not a huge difference once you get to 50 and beyond. Maybe 80 gets you 2 more firings per game (than 50 does)? Maybe? That's a LOT of Sp's/training for very minimal gain. IMHO.
50 is usually where I stop.
Edited by Theo Wizzago on Dec 18, 2023 10:51:41
Chris B Chicken
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One of these days I'll test this.
Use a CEQ slot to get Hurdle all the way to 14, so that it "fires" as much as humanly possible.
Then dial up Jumping to see where it actually starts to work.
Use a CEQ slot to get Hurdle all the way to 14, so that it "fires" as much as humanly possible.
Then dial up Jumping to see where it actually starts to work.
WiSeIVIaN
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Problem is the PBP is only showing the amount of time hurdle fires AND you win the break tackle vs make tackle role.
*EXAMPLE WITH MADE UP VALUES*
Lets say your break tackle roll was 40 without hurdle firing, and you only have 1 in hurdle and score a 41. But lets say the make tackle roll was 38. You would have broken a tackle either way, with no way to discern whether hurdle helped or not.
Also it's possible to have a base break tackle roll of 10 without hurdle, and +25 from your 14 pts in hurdle, for a total score of 35. But the make tackle score was 38 so you didn't break a tackle or have anything show on the pbp.
*EXAMPLE WITH MADE UP VALUES*
Lets say your break tackle roll was 40 without hurdle firing, and you only have 1 in hurdle and score a 41. But lets say the make tackle roll was 38. You would have broken a tackle either way, with no way to discern whether hurdle helped or not.
Also it's possible to have a base break tackle roll of 10 without hurdle, and +25 from your 14 pts in hurdle, for a total score of 35. But the make tackle score was 38 so you didn't break a tackle or have anything show on the pbp.
Chris B Chicken
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Imo, the bigger problem is the subjectivity of it, though I'm not sure that's exactly the right word.
It should entirely depend on the competition you're facing. Better built defensive dots, should cut down on the number of successes.
So I've pretty much decided to donate my eHB to science. It should make for an interesting case study. The only BT% related stuff I'll have is the 30% from Quick feet, and that's not exactly the same.
Unless I'm specifically asked not to, I'm going to spend my last boosts on maxing out Hurdle, and I'll bite the bullet and buy a +4 Hurdle piece of CEQ.
The only thing I won't be able to test is the effect of increasing Jumping, because I'll be out of SPs.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4851437
It should entirely depend on the competition you're facing. Better built defensive dots, should cut down on the number of successes.
So I've pretty much decided to donate my eHB to science. It should make for an interesting case study. The only BT% related stuff I'll have is the 30% from Quick feet, and that's not exactly the same.
Unless I'm specifically asked not to, I'm going to spend my last boosts on maxing out Hurdle, and I'll bite the bullet and buy a +4 Hurdle piece of CEQ.
The only thing I won't be able to test is the effect of increasing Jumping, because I'll be out of SPs.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4851437
I've been told (more than once) that 'Hurdle' doesn't work when the tackle is from behind. Funny because 'Jumping' is what helps you avoid a diving tackle (the tackle of choice for those attempting a tackle from behind). But it is what it is and if true (which I believe it is) then Hurdle's best function for non, slow-assed, PHB's, kinda renders it almost worthless.
I say that because, literally, Hurdle is a 'diving tackle avoidance' SA. If you watch 'Hurdle' replays... I cannot think of one that didn't involve some form of diving tackle or simply a flattened dot (I always get an instant image of ol' Wile E. Coyote's "ACME instant hole"!
) that is in the path of the runner... usually some poor D-lineman or LB that an O-lineman has pancaked. Not all diving tackles are "diving tackles" either. I have seen a defensive player, engaged in a block, attempt a tackle as the runner goes past... but also gets caked at the same time when he makes the attempt. It never says "diving tackle attempt" but it acts like one and I've seen hurdle fire when it does.
Anyways, Hurdle is just a speed bump avoidance system. It's not bad... especially for PHB's who tend to get plenty of 'diving tackle' attempts. But for speedy players that rely on agility to 'barry sanders' defensive dots? Not so sure.
I say that because, literally, Hurdle is a 'diving tackle avoidance' SA. If you watch 'Hurdle' replays... I cannot think of one that didn't involve some form of diving tackle or simply a flattened dot (I always get an instant image of ol' Wile E. Coyote's "ACME instant hole"!
) that is in the path of the runner... usually some poor D-lineman or LB that an O-lineman has pancaked. Not all diving tackles are "diving tackles" either. I have seen a defensive player, engaged in a block, attempt a tackle as the runner goes past... but also gets caked at the same time when he makes the attempt. It never says "diving tackle attempt" but it acts like one and I've seen hurdle fire when it does. Anyways, Hurdle is just a speed bump avoidance system. It's not bad... especially for PHB's who tend to get plenty of 'diving tackle' attempts. But for speedy players that rely on agility to 'barry sanders' defensive dots? Not so sure.
Chris B Chicken
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Me either. You're right tho.
Every DT I've ever built, a vast majority of the missed tackles are on diving tackles. That's probably why it's a pHB staple. Also why we'll never know how much of it is Hurdle because Power Thru will override the Hurdle animation.
So that's why my idea is to have Hurdle be the only tackle breaking SA that's invested heavily in. I'll have a couple incidental points in Spin and LtS/SA/PT.
It's an experiment because I have no idea if it'll work or not. I'm assuming it won't because I didn't start the build with this in mind. It should be easy to build a Hurdle machine from scratch, but who would want to do that?
Every DT I've ever built, a vast majority of the missed tackles are on diving tackles. That's probably why it's a pHB staple. Also why we'll never know how much of it is Hurdle because Power Thru will override the Hurdle animation.
So that's why my idea is to have Hurdle be the only tackle breaking SA that's invested heavily in. I'll have a couple incidental points in Spin and LtS/SA/PT.
It's an experiment because I have no idea if it'll work or not. I'm assuming it won't because I didn't start the build with this in mind. It should be easy to build a Hurdle machine from scratch, but who would want to do that?
Originally posted by Chris B Chicken
Me either. You're right tho.
Every DT I've ever built, a vast majority of the missed tackles are on diving tackles. That's probably why it's a pHB staple. Also why we'll never know how much of it is Hurdle because Power Thru will override the Hurdle animation.
So that's why my idea is to have Hurdle be the only tackle breaking SA that's invested heavily in. I'll have a couple incidental points in Spin and LtS/SA/PT.
It's an experiment because I have no idea if it'll work or not. I'm assuming it won't because I didn't start the build with this in mind. It should be easy to build a Hurdle machine from scratch, but who would want to do that?
how high is their jumping?
Me either. You're right tho.
Every DT I've ever built, a vast majority of the missed tackles are on diving tackles. That's probably why it's a pHB staple. Also why we'll never know how much of it is Hurdle because Power Thru will override the Hurdle animation.
So that's why my idea is to have Hurdle be the only tackle breaking SA that's invested heavily in. I'll have a couple incidental points in Spin and LtS/SA/PT.
It's an experiment because I have no idea if it'll work or not. I'm assuming it won't because I didn't start the build with this in mind. It should be easy to build a Hurdle machine from scratch, but who would want to do that?
how high is their jumping?
King of Bling
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Originally posted by reddogrw
how high is their jumping?
Exactly. A 4" vertical isn't going to do a whole lot...
how high is their jumping?
Exactly. A 4" vertical isn't going to do a whole lot...
Chris B Chicken
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https://postimg.cc/k67FJLqT
Of the 8 tackles I've missed in this dot's career, 6 were diving tackles. Half of the tackles I've missed this season were diving tackles.
Jumping is the last attribute I get to in the build because of no ALGs. I usually train it to 30+ and then cap it at 49, and then roll it to 50.
https://i.postimg.cc/28dCG1LT/Screenshot-20231222-071647-947.png
Of the 3 missed tackles in this dot's career (all in one bad game btw) only 1 was a diving tackle, and this one hasn't yet capped Jumping, but will.
Of the 8 tackles I've missed in this dot's career, 6 were diving tackles. Half of the tackles I've missed this season were diving tackles.
Jumping is the last attribute I get to in the build because of no ALGs. I usually train it to 30+ and then cap it at 49, and then roll it to 50.
https://i.postimg.cc/28dCG1LT/Screenshot-20231222-071647-947.png
Of the 3 missed tackles in this dot's career (all in one bad game btw) only 1 was a diving tackle, and this one hasn't yet capped Jumping, but will.
All this jumping talk (and Hurdle talk) got me wondering. Does Jumping help with Cut Block (offense) and avoiding Cut Blocks (defense)? It makes sense. A Cut Block is simply an offensive version of a 'diving tackle' on a defensive player... and to avoid the 'o-lineman' trying to take out your ankles, you'd need 'jump' (defensive "hurdle?"). Anyone have any Bortys on this thought?
ANumber1Roy
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https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=17714&pbp_id=672265
The first tackle looks like a potential tackle from behind getting hurdled.
The first tackle looks like a potential tackle from behind getting hurdled.
Originally posted by ANumber1Roy
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=17714&pbp_id=672265
The first tackle looks like a potential tackle from behind getting hurdled.
Looking frame by frame, it looked to me like the diving dot was almost directly to the side, but still a tiny bit in front of the dot it dove after, which would make sense to me for a hurdle "counter" to that diving tackle, since the RB dot could "see" the attempt and react.
It makes sense not to be able to hurdle a tackle attempt from behind, because seeing the attempt would be crucial to jumping to avoid it. Otherwise, you'd just be jumping your way down the field every time you felt like there was someone behind you!
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=17714&pbp_id=672265
The first tackle looks like a potential tackle from behind getting hurdled.
Looking frame by frame, it looked to me like the diving dot was almost directly to the side, but still a tiny bit in front of the dot it dove after, which would make sense to me for a hurdle "counter" to that diving tackle, since the RB dot could "see" the attempt and react.
It makes sense not to be able to hurdle a tackle attempt from behind, because seeing the attempt would be crucial to jumping to avoid it. Otherwise, you'd just be jumping your way down the field every time you felt like there was someone behind you!
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