Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Dr. E
I dislike first step on receivers. Makes check downs more difficult because the receiver will be a different spot when it fires.

Sounds like you have a vision problem, not a FS problem. FS is great especially combined with fakes.

Originally posted by psi
oh i meant 110 base. and it's 4 aeq so 168
60's all around for the relevant stuff seems fair, just want to get the best shot at not being a drop factory if it's taking throws 30/40 yds downfield

I’m not sure why you’d want to sabotage your WR’s build so much by going for 110 natural speed. Getting 105 should be enough with 4 AEQ. It then comes down to how your OC uses your WR.

I legitimately thought this was just a build people do with success

Most OCs (if not all) don’t care for the long ball especially if you plan on getting him onto a team that’s going for WL. It’s mostly just dink and dunk and screens. I think a 168 spd WR would in theory be a terror in the screen game. However a 168 spd wr with low agility and low fake ability is essentially just a guy out there running cardio.

That being said if you want to try this build out by all means. Glb is stale and most of if not all these guys are okay with building the same dots to do the same thing year after year for the past 70+ seasons. If you wanna add diversity and can find a coordinator to build a system he can strive in do that.

However the higher level your WR gets the less open he’ll get especially on deep balls due to low agility and low fake. Most DBs are running around with 10+ superior vision/15+ ball hawk and like 95 agility with avoid fake which is Lock down even on meta built WRs. The int to td ratio in WL is like 10 to 1. I see your WR is still low level so you have decent time to plan.

Be interesting to be able to view average attributes of WL dots by position. I’d think it very helpful to new players.

Originally posted by psi
I legitimately thought this was just a build people do with success

I'd say the average every down WR lands somewhere between 102 & 105 natural

Originally posted by Dr. E
Be interesting to be able to view average attributes of WL dots by position. I’d think it very helpful to new players.

This would be nice. I don't even want to know what someone's top secret scheme-based deception-based builds are... just looking for baseline WL builds.

Originally posted by 88Spam
Most OCs (if not all) don’t care for the long ball especially if you plan on getting him onto a team that’s going for WL. It’s mostly just dink and dunk and screens. I think a 168 spd WR would in theory be a terror in the screen game. However a 168 spd wr with low agility and low fake ability is essentially just a guy out there running cardio.

That being said if you want to try this build out by all means. Glb is stale and most of if not all these guys are okay with building the same dots to do the same thing year after year for the past 70+ seasons. If you wanna add diversity and can find a coordinator to build a system he can strive in do that.

However the higher level your WR gets the less open he’ll get especially on deep balls due to low agility and low fake. Most DBs are running around with 10+ superior vision/15+ ball hawk and like 95 agility with avoid fake which is Lock down even on meta built WRs. The int to td ratio in WL is like 10 to 1. I see your WR is still low level so you have decent time to plan.

Yeah, the hopes with extreme high speed is to figure out if the game is even breakable or if CBs just control the game no matter what. Doesn't seem like a 10 speed difference between WR and CB matters at all. And the WR fakes seem so infrequent (oh, and you need to be thrown at in order to have them pay off). Long completions happen, but it seems so stacked that it's not nearly as hard to build a shutdown CB as it is to build a WR that can be a meaningful presence outside of stacking 3rd down / situational VAs.

There's probably more merit to a 168 speed WR when there are 3 of them on the team, 1 probably won't make much of a difference.

Originally posted by psi
Yeah, the hopes with extreme high speed is to figure out if the game is even breakable or if CBs just control the game no matter what. Doesn't seem like a 10 speed difference between WR and CB matters at all. And the WR fakes seem so infrequent (oh, and you need to be thrown at in order to have them pay off). Long completions happen, but it seems so stacked that it's not nearly as hard to build a shutdown CB as it is to build a WR that can be a meaningful presence outside of stacking 3rd down / situational VAs.

There's probably more merit to a 168 speed WR when there are 3 of them on the team, 1 probably won't make much of a difference.

WR's get open because of fakes more than speed

Originally posted by reddogrw
WR's get open because of fakes more than speed

quick cut helps with seperation?

Originally posted by RyanCane26
I'd say the average every down WR lands somewhere between 102 & 105 natural

Yikes. Seems like I am way behind the times on WR's. If I can hit 160 speed with 58 from AEQ and track star I am happy.

Originally posted by psi
I legitimately thought this was just a build people do with success

Honestly, I think it is more speed than common, Not that that's bad, but their are other attributes and skills that are probably more important than a few more points of speed when it comes down to it
Originally posted by reddogrw
most WR get open due to fakes


This. I personally like Juke with QF VA. IMO its worth it to have an AEq in Juke for a WR, but not in any other SA.

Originally posted by psi
thanks. is high Vision helpful for getting a good jump off the line quickly? could something like 75 catching 70 vision work as well as 85 catching 50 vision for catching purposes, while making him faster?

Vision is important for catching (you need to see the ball) and also route running. It helps your guy successfully do fakes, but not only that, it helps with all cutting and route running when running a route. I once saw a WR with 168 vision and you'd have thought he had 200 speed and a million agility when he was cutting around the field. He'd cut 3 times in one movement towards the middle of the field and then instantly juke back to the sideline and stuff. It was crazy. Then he'd get caught up to quickly because his speed was actually 110 (total). My point is that vision probably does more than most people would assume.

Originally posted by POOPERDOG7
quick cut helps with seperation?

Yes. QC SA helps with separation by allowing your guy to change direction faster. Also QC SA helps juke fire. So it would seem QC is double useful when running routes.

Originally posted by psi
Doesn't seem like a 10 speed difference between WR and CB matters at all. And the WR fakes seem so infrequent (oh, and you need to be thrown at in order to have them pay off). Long completions happen, but it seems so stacked that it's not nearly as hard to build a shutdown CB as it is to build a WR that can be a meaningful presence outside of stacking 3rd down / situational VAs.


None of this is true- the only part close being that a 10 speed difference (which does make a difference) is not at all the be-all end-all for getting open. Not even close. Change of direction and fakes are by far the most important aspects of getting open.

WR fakes are not infrequent at all, if the WR has requisite SAs, agility, vision, and fake% AEq. In fact, they can be overpowering. Building a shutdown CB is one of the more difficult tasks there is. It seems not to be the case, only because you are still playing with young dots and not at the highest level. Its not easy to make a CB that can actually 'shut down' the best Pro and WL receivers. In fact, the best receivers are never going to be 'shut down' every play. Not possible.

The key IMO to being able to consistently catch long passes is probably Catching and Catch Ball %. No matter how fast a WR is, its harder to be open deep (unless you break ankles with a fake) especially contending with deep safeties, etc. You won't see many uncontested catches of 20+ yards, and its much more difficult to make a long contested catch than a short one. If you want to catch long passes consistently, you need to be able to catch. A pure speed WR would be more of a situational player. You're looking for match-ups and you're looking for Cover 1 and Cover 0 situations to exploit on the deep ball. If the defense is in cover 2 or 3 all game, you aren't getting wide open on many go routes, no matter how fast the WR is. So an all speed WR would be a very situational player rather than a consistent bread-and-butter go to playmaker guy.

Originally posted by sunder B
Yikes. Seems like I am way behind the times on WR's. If I can hit 160 speed with 58 from AEQ and track star I am happy.

Pump it to 83-85 off the start and multi train it pretty much the entire time you are multi training

Originally posted by POOPERDOG7
quick cut helps with seperation?

Only if the defender doesn't have it too.

Come to think of it... you the defender has it and you don't... INT???

Originally posted by sunder B
Yikes. Seems like I am way behind the times on WR's. If I can hit 160 speed with 58 from AEQ and track star I am happy.

If your ever using VA numbers to hit a target, you’ve fallen short.