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Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Montoya829
It seems like confidence is circular in that it helps the player all around. So even for QBs 68 is the max you should take it?


Perhaps even more. With QB's Confidence effects pass quality and decision making (when to throw... who to throw to) so Confidence has MORE effect with those dots than it does for other dots With Kickers it effects kick accuracy and quality (perhaps even distance as well). Once a QB misses a pass, then a low confidence begins to erode at future pass quality. Low confidence also will cause a QB to throw the ball away sooner (if he 'feels' that he's going to get sacked... low confidence speeds up that 'feeling', therefore causes him to throw away sooner than necessary). With a kicker, a missed FG (or XP) will have a much bigger effect on future attempts if his confidence is low. When I built my QB's, I wouldn't settle for less than 80 confidence. Now, if it's a Running QB that runs more than passes, you can get by with a lowed number.


Lastly, each dot is different in just how much confidence is really necessary. Things to keep in mind is WHAT the dot is built for and WHERE the dot plays on the field. A MLB who wants to have 'Line General' as an ability should consider having MORE confidence than a OLB that will not have that ability. A DT that plays Nose tackle and also has Line General would need more confidence than a DE that doesn't. Any position that is likely to have MORE attacks on it's morale and confidence should consider having more defenses against it and more Confidence to make those defenses work better. HOWEVER, you can lose the quality of a dot by chasing Confidence TOO MUCH when it's not needed to be so high. Every single point (SP) you spend on Confidence takes away from other more important skills that makes the dot do it's job best. Several here have posted the number 40 as a target... it's actually 41 because that makes Overtime Killer an available option and it's a good one to have.
 
Sonic
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Several here have posted the number 40 as a target... it's actually 41 because that makes Overtime Killer an available option and it's a good one to have.


40 is the number Theo.
 
reddogrw
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Originally posted by Montoya829

It seems like confidence is circular in that it helps the player all around. So even for QBs 68 is the max you should take it?


Perhaps even more. With QB's Confidence effects pass quality and decision making (when to throw... who to throw to) so Confidence has MORE effect with those dots than it does for other dots With Kickers it effects kick accuracy and quality (perhaps even distance as well). Once a QB misses a pass, then a low confidence begins to erode at future pass quality. Low confidence also will cause a QB to throw the ball away sooner (if he 'feels' that he's going to get sacked... low confidence speeds up that 'feeling', therefore causes him to throw away sooner than necessary). With a kicker, a missed FG (or XP) will have a much bigger effect on future attempts if his confidence is low. When I built my QB's, I wouldn't settle for less than 80 confidence. Now, if it's a Running QB that runs more than passes, you can get by with a lowed number.


Lastly, each dot is different in just how much confidence is really necessary. Things to keep in mind is WHAT the dot is built for and WHERE the dot plays on the field. A MLB who wants to have 'Line General' as an ability should consider having MORE confidence than a OLB that will not have that ability. A DT that plays Nose tackle and also has Line General would need more confidence than a DE that doesn't. Any position that is likely to have MORE attacks on it's morale and confidence should consider having more defenses against it and more Confidence to make those defenses work better. HOWEVER, you can lose the quality of a dot by chasing Confidence TOO MUCH when it's not needed to be so high. Every single point (SP) you spend on Confidence takes away from other more important skills that makes the dot do it's job best. Several here have posted the number 40 as a target... it's actually 41 because that makes Overtime Killer an available option and it's a good one to have.


there have been tests on the test server and reported in the sub forums that QB confidence doesn't do much for you over 60 (some would argue even to just cap it)
 
Montoya829
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I was planning to bring my new QB to 68 confidence.
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Sonic
40 is the number Theo.


(goes to double check) DOH! My bad. Don't know why the 41 was so stuck in my head.


Originally posted by reddogrw
there have been tests on the test server and reported in the sub forums that QB confidence doesn't do much for you over 60 (some would argue even to just cap it)


I looked everywhere [FAQ and the Q&A's] and found NO confirmation by GLB, it's mods, admins, or other employees stating such a claim. I've seen plenty of PEOPLE (players) making such claims but then they didn't design the game nor have access to the servers or programs to back this up.
I will say this... Confidence is one of the most argued skills in the game with about as many detractors as supporters. My personal opinion on it is vague but simple; If I'm going to write a game program then everything IN that program is going to have an effect on the game (in other words, no 'fake skills' that do nothing at all). So Confidence MUST have an effect... and it MUST have a different effect at level 100 as opposed to level 50. The overall argument is HOW MUCH of a difference that effect is and I'm closer to your line of thinking than you believe me to be. I haven't built a QB in some time but my kicker/punter has 70 confidence and will probably go no higher than that. But that's the ONLY dot I have with confidence that high... the rest aren't even up to 40 yet.
Edited by Theo Wizzago on Feb 26, 2016 21:22:04
 
Gambler75
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Catch22
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Aug 7, 2012 17:35:09
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Confidence impact on bad passes:


Originally posted by Catch22
Need someone to run the following test:

Run 5 test games, all passing, with the following team:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=62

Only use this QB:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=42815

Report the following:

# of passes attempted
# of bad throws
# of times hurried
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry

Once done with these 5 games, let me know and I will change the QB confidence to 75. Repeat the 5 game test and reports as above.

Once done with those 5 games, let me know and I will change the QB confidence to 50. Repeat 5 game test again.



With 100 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6034 (109, 11, 13, 6)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6035 (85, 2, 4, 2)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6036 (105, 7 ,20, 4)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6037 (108, 14, 26, 12)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6039 (105, 13, 18, 5)

# of passes attempted - 512
# of bad throws - 47 (9.18%)
# of times hurried - 81 (15.82%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 29 (5.66%)


With 75 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6053 (109, 8, 18, 5)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6060 (113, 18, 22, 16)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6061 (109, 11, 21, 9)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6062 (105, 5, 15, 3)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6066 (108, 17, 22, 11)

# of passes attempted - 544
# of bad throws - 59 (10.85%)
# of times hurried - 98 (18.01%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 45 (8.27%)

With 50 Confidence:
Game #1 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6087 (110, 9 , 17, 6)
Game #2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6088 (87, 22, 34, 20)
Game #3 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6089 (112, 9 , 22, 7)
Game #4 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6090 (70, 7, 23, 6)
Game #5 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6091 (98, 6, 17, 6)

# of passes attempted - 477
# of bad throws - 53 (11.11%)
# of times hurried - 113 (23.69%)
# of times bad throw was caused by hurry - 45 (9.43%)

Conclusion - I ran these games with the same offensive AI and same base defensive AI. As you can see I do not feel there is much of a noticeable difference from 100 confidence to 50 confidence.

~ end quote.

From that - it doesn't *look* like the bang for your buck is there with confidence on QBs, but to Theo's point - it's still up for debate, and the test didn't check the numbers for say - how quickly things dropped off with the other team taking much of a lead (morale damage resistance). At least in the current meta, doesn't seem like folks want to throw a whole lot until they're behind a few scores - so having say a 1 capped conf QB could hurt in that manner. YMMV
 
Theo Wizzago
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The one number that really stands out (to me, anyways) is the difference between the percentages of "# of times bad throw was caused by hurry" since that is the one thing I guarantee where Confidence does have an effect. 100% almost cut in half the number of times a bad throw was caused by a 'hurry'. Bad throws and number of times hurried has effects from other than just confidence like the quality of the O-line vs the quality of the D-line (hurries) and bad throws also come from more than just confidence as well.
Also, would add that completion percentages weren't listed as well and I wonder if the higher confidence would mean higher completion percentages? Even if you only gained 5% overall in completion % for a QB, that's huge when you consider that effect on a game. And you would have to break it down even further... like completion % on 3rd and long... on 4th down.. game winning drives... areas where a high confidence would have it's most importance.
Overall, it just makes it really hard to argue effectively either for OR against. I suspect there's simply no super easy answer (such as 81 is the perfect number for a QB's confidence) and each builder must find their own balance of where to take their skills.
 
Montoya829
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
The one number that really stands out (to me, anyways) is the difference between the percentages of "# of times bad throw was caused by hurry" since that is the one thing I guarantee where Confidence does have an effect. 100% almost cut in half the number of times a bad throw was caused by a 'hurry'. Bad throws and number of times hurried has effects from other than just confidence like the quality of the O-line vs the quality of the D-line (hurries) and bad throws also come from more than just confidence as well.
Also, would add that completion percentages weren't listed as well and I wonder if the higher confidence would mean higher completion percentages? Even if you only gained 5% overall in completion % for a QB, that's huge when you consider that effect on a game. And you would have to break it down even further... like completion % on 3rd and long... on 4th down.. game winning drives... areas where a high confidence would have it's most importance.
Overall, it just makes it really hard to argue effectively either for OR against. I suspect there's simply no super easy answer (such as 81 is the perfect number for a QB's confidence) and each builder must find their own balance of where to take their skills.


81 seems a tad high when the points could be spent in vision or strength. I was thinking maybe 70 for confidence should do the trick. But I don't know thats why I asked
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Montoya829
81 seems a tad high when the points could be spent in vision or strength. I was thinking maybe 70 for confidence should do the trick. But I don't know thats why I asked


Yeah. Several things in this game are very ambiguous which leaves us chasing the dragon's tail. So if you built two identical QB's with identical SA's and VA's and everything... but gave one 81 vision and 70 confidence and the other 81 confidence and 70 vision, I still don't think you could gather enough info to definitively say that one way is significantly better than the other. I liken it to the 'Clutch' VA. I mean, how on earth could you show anyone where it fired? How it works? What it did in any given situation... if it worked at all? It's why some people use it and some don't. And nobody knows the truth... just that it is supposed to work and that, if it does, it's supposed to be a good VA. Best guess, eh? What I do know about QB's is that passing is the most important skill and you can't have too much of it. Strength is important for not only pass distance but in pass speed which might mean the difference between a completion and a deflection. Vision helps you spot the open man and the blitzing whomever. Confidence is supposed to help with pass accuracy especially in 'rushed' situations. Agility helps with accuracy. Speed helps you drop back quicker so you can get your progressions started sooner. As far as I know, those are the most important skills for any throwing QB.
 
gbororats
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IMO getting speed and agility up higher in a quarterback is more important than taking confidence over 60.
 
Montoya829
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Originally posted by gbororats
IMO getting speed and agility up higher in a quarterback is more important than taking confidence over 60.


How high should speed and agility go?
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Montoya829
How high should speed and agility go?


Speed for a drop back passer should be at the very LEAST to 1st cap. (IMO) Most take it to 50-55. As for Agility, you need it for passing accuracy and for things like 'Turn The Shoulder' so second cap would be the lowest I would even consider. I suspect many take it into the high 70's and beyond. I suspect 80-something to be a normal number for most builders. Know this, I don't build Deep Passer arches... I'm one of those that believe (and have built several) that the Pocket Passer, with the right OC, is the better QB build. I am in the minority of this opinion and accept that so I just thought you should know that. I'm all about passing accuracy over passing yardage and that you'll complete a lot more important short passes than long ones... passes that keep the chains moving when you really MUST do so. Consequently, I also build WR's that are all about catching and not only about speed. When you put both together you can create the equivalent of the ol' West Coast style offense. A balanced ABILITY to both run and pass for yardage consistently that might not be glorious as the bomber styles but wear down a defense and wins games.
Whatever QB style you are trying to build, you need to talk to the OC and make sure you are building to his GAME PLAN... his play calling style. A Qb such as I build will only work if the passing plays and game plan style reflects the build (or, vise versa... the build reflects the OC's plans). So I'd ask your OC what he wants from your QB. If that's a lot of deep throws, then you need to attack Strength a lot... maybe confidence not so much. If he's just throwing screens 90% of the time, then you can really cut strength down a bit and get more speed and agility instead. Hope this helps ya.
 
Sonic
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How much confidence is good for a WR and what level is too much. I usually aim for 40 to first cap. Second cap seems far off considering how much a WR needs. And does it make a difference?

How much strength would you take a speed or possession WR up to?
 
Theo Wizzago
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Originally posted by Sonic
How much confidence is good for a WR and what level is too much. I usually aim for 40 to first cap. Second cap seems far off considering how much a WR needs. And does it make a difference?

How much strength would you take a speed or possession WR up to?


I don't usually go past 41 (told you that number is stuck in my head ) for confidence on any WR. As for your second question, Speed can get by with almost nothing (I've seen plenty of them with less than 10 strength) as long as you have enough speed to burn. Personally, I'd prefer a LITTLE strength for a Speed Arch WR... like 20 minimum? But it's not overly important to that arch. As for a Possession/Power arch WR, you need strength and carrying as well. Since you'll never have the speed to dust off all defenders, you're going to be catching in traffic and getting hit in many catch attempts so you need both strength and carrying to avoid KL's. I like 50+ strength and 65+ carrying and try to hit 70 for both... even higher for carrying. It's really important to avoid the KL's as well as post-catch fumbles. Also, if you're building a Possession/Power arch WR, go with max height and don't forget jumping too. I found you'll make a lot more catches doing that. Just don't expect a lot of YAC from those types of arches... they are just good solid receivers and also decent blockers on outside running plays.
Edited by Theo Wizzago on Mar 4, 2016 22:05:37
 
gbororats
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Originally posted by Montoya829
How high should speed and agility go?


yeah, i found speed to 40 helps prevent the instasack on screens... i like it at 49 (first cap) and agility minimum for me would be 68.
 
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