Warrior General Games

I think Hurdle is awesome myself. There is certainly a difference between guys with and without it from my standpoint.

thx.

It does not need to show in the PBP to make a difference either. It can fire in conjunction with PT or Spin to give a bigger BT% bonus and it also increases your diving BT% score regardless if firing. Also that dot MHS posted was a pretty poor example imo, his CAR is piss poor and his STR is blah. I think it shows u cant rely on JMP alone and hope to hurdle, u need a strong base BT% score as Bhall said earlier. I mean its a BT SA, u cant expect to live on PT or Spin with numbers that low so im not sure why anyone would think hurdle would be diff.

Lol Sellars, that dot was created on the day Archetypes rolled out, which was also the day that bonus SA's were created.
Back before APD.

His carrying and strength were on the higher end of average for an elusive during that time.
Of course his numbers are p bad by today's standards but that was a WL and USAPL (long before consolidation of pro leagues) halfback. He broke a tackle on roughly half of all his carries (in plateua, not counting scrub leagues and before the build rounded out). Comparatively to other HB's at the time his build was fine. And what I learned about the strength of jumping in the diving tackle roll still stands today as the only thing that's changed is the balance of attributes in opposing defenders, but the interplay of attributes in the rolls is the same.

Hurdle added no benefit to the above build at all. Jumping and Spin both added a marked improvement in % broken tackles per touch.

For reference this dot hit plateau nearly 2 years ago.
He got 5 SP's per boost, not 6 like we do now, nobody knew how to optimize multi-training, 4 AEQ dots were barely on the build radar, Spin was still a super-powered SA, % AEQ still wasn't widely understood and there were no bonus 20 SP's for the level 74 boost. Also none of us had any clue what we were doing compared to now, 150+ speed was considered fast, and I felt seriously accomplished at having raised an attribute with no ALG's to 74.5 (jumping), at the time I didn't think it was possible.
Most of the stuff above was only slowly figured out after a few seasons passed, by the point my dot already had his build trajectory set.
Please show me some of your dots that were lvl 79 22 months ago. Dots only compete against the other dots on the field.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2028783
It's a worthless SA.


You realize that Hurdle has been unnerfed three times since it was released right?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4319678

Hurdle is the only SA that can ADD its break tackle score when another SA fires. So you can get a Spin/Hurdle break on a diving tackle, but only Spin shows up in the replay.

The only time Hurdle alone shows up in the replay is if no other SAs fire.

Watch that dots replays and tell me Hurdle isn't a great SA.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2469310&pbp_id=230252
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2475668&pbp_id=2963389
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2497145&pbp_id=2568458
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2497145&pbp_id=2563743
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2469310&pbp_id=229624
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2493700&pbp_id=32771

Four games I looked at. Those were all hurdles without any other SAs firing, and he has pretty much all of the SAs, so it is tough to find many BTs where no SA fires.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Lol Sellars, that dot was created on the day Archetypes rolled out, which was also the day that bonus SA's were created.
Back before APD.

.

I never said the dot was bad, I said it was a poor example to support hurdle sucking which it is a poor one imo. Don't get all offended. I know u build good dots. But really if the dot has a poor BT% score how can u expect him to break tackles with a BT SA? Plus like I said in my post and like Time Trial reverted to in his post, u dont see it in the PBP but it is certainly working. If u want to know which backs are besting WL the most its the ones with hurdle. I think jumpings impact on the SA is being overblown as well, many a high JMP WR have tried hurdle and it doesnt do shit, in the same way Spin never fires for WR's that have 90+ AGL. U need the CAR mainly and enough STR to really fire BT SAs which I don't think your dot had quite enough of to rely on hurdle to fire consistently. I feel u made a great effort and im sure a lot of people are glad that someone went and pumped JMP really high to be a guinie pig on the whole thing, but to me just because that method wasnt working is no indication of the SA being garbage.

Again, just because it's in the pbp doesn't mean it's provided any measurable increase to % broken tackles.

The dot I linked was active during one of those unnerfings of hurdle. The season before it was buffed was his best season for hurdles in Pro Leagues. After that season ended he plateuad in off-season, hurdle was supposedly boosted, and I barely ever saw the SA again.

When you have a dot with a high BT score anyway they break tackles naturally, until I see some comparative evidence of either two similar builds side by side, one with hurdle, one without. Or a marked increase as hurdle is added to a build my conclusion remains the same. Hurdle has the same effectiveness as the stiff arm SA in my mind. I have yet to see a HB with more jumping than mine with hurdle as well. If the SA's strength is modulated by jumping you would also think that more jumping would only provide a stronger boost from Hurdle, not to mention the boost to your base break diving tackle score that jumping provides, which is rather substantive from what I've seen.

Just posting replays of the SA in the pbp isn't enough. Most people agree that Stiff arm isn't a terribly effective SA and that an investment in Power Through and then Lower the Shoulder should be made first. I say that an investment in hurdle doesn't provide sizable returns, and I'd honestly always prefer that the points that would've been spent on Hurdle are just spent on the jumping attribute, there is more bang for your buck from the attribute than the SA.

Ok Sellars, you are right, I've said my piece and need to let people decide for themselves based on the evidence presented in this thread. I'll stop posting as I really don't have much more of my opinion to add to this thread.

I wish I could quote people in the forums because then my replys here would probably be a bit clearer as far as who I'm responding to.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes

When you have a dot with a high BT score anyway they break tackles naturally,

Again, you could say that for any break tackle SA. But of course you wouldn't believe that because it really isn't true.

Furthermore, you continue to blindly ignore this.

Originally posted by Time Trial


Hurdle is the only SA that can ADD its break tackle score when another SA fires.


Add to that the bonus from it gets from Quick Feet.

At what point of firing constantly does a break tackle SA become worthwhile? The more impressive part about Hurdle is that it fires constantly without Power Thru or Spin taking away its mojo. Comparing Hurdle to Stiff arm is foolish.

Originally posted by DeeVee8
CB returner with 62 jmp and 85 carrying +18% brktkl and 11 hurdle.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4319333

I see it fire on at least 25% of his returns.

the dot definitely got better as hurdle was added

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Again, just because it's in the pbp doesn't mean it's provided any measurable increase to % broken tackles.

The dot I linked was active during one of those unnerfings of hurdle. The season before it was buffed was his best season for hurdles in Pro Leagues. After that season ended he plateuad in off-season, hurdle was supposedly boosted, and I barely ever saw the SA again.

When you have a dot with a high BT score anyway they break tackles naturally, until I see some comparative evidence of either two similar builds side by side, one with hurdle, one without. Or a marked increase as hurdle is added to a build my conclusion remains the same. Hurdle has the same effectiveness as the stiff arm SA in my mind. I have yet to see a HB with more jumping than mine with hurdle as well. If the SA's strength is modulated by jumping you would also think that more jumping would only provide a stronger boost from Hurdle, not to mention the boost to your base break diving tackle score that jumping provides, which is rather substantive from what I've seen.

Just posting replays of the SA in the pbp isn't enough. Most people agree that Stiff arm isn't a terribly effective SA and that an investment in Power Through and then Lower the Shoulder should be made first. I say that an investment in hurdle doesn't provide sizable returns, and I'd honestly always prefer that the points that would've been spent on Hurdle are just spent on the jumping attribute, there is more bang for your buck from the attribute than the SA.

Or you could have logged into this discussion before I added the points in hurdle and before I added jumping where I showed the very increase you are talking about.

I showed % of broken diving tackles BEFORE the addition of hurdle, then I measured the increase the the % as I added jumping, then I showed the increase as I added spin and power thru.

Keep up.

Could you please link me to that thread?