Warrior General Games

Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
i went with SSs. was going to go with LBs but decided to try the SSs out. ill be happy if theyre just making tackles and not missing any tbh.

all you had to do was PM me

Originally posted by Homage
all you had to do was PM me

so then i guess SSs are completely useless?

Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
so then i guess SSs are completely useless?

no, just not as good

Originally posted by Homage
no, just not as good

Agree. And also, nothing wrong with splitting up the positions... 2 HHLB's and 2 STOP centers. HH:B's work VERY well against CPU dots and poorly built returners... but against a good/great returner they're just ok. Especially at the very high levels where top returners have super high carrying and "no fumble gear/SA's/VA's". That and they're much harder to get a damn good hit on.

I did a bunch of work on this topic. Here were some of my notes:

Speed, Strength, Tackling as Majors:

CB:

Hard Hitter
5'10" - 6'3", 190-210 Lbs
Major Attributes: Speed, Strength, Tackling, Vision(+.5)
Minor Attributes: Agility, Confidence, Jumping, Stamina (+.25)
Favored Special Abilities: Closing Speed
Penalized Special Abilities: Change Direction

Combo Corner
5'8" - 6'3", 170-210 Lbs
Major Attributes: Agility, Speed, Strength, Tackling(+.5)
Minor Attributes: Vision, Confidence, Jumping, Stamina (+.25)
Favored Special Abilities: None
Penalized Special Abilities: None

DT:

Combo Tackle
6'0" - 6'8", 280-330 Lbs
Major Attributes: Speed, Strength, Tackling, Vision (+.5)
Minor Attributes: Agility, Confidence, Stamina (+.33)
Favored Special Abilities: None
Penalized Special Abilities: None

FS:

Hard Hitter
5'10" - 6'4", 195-220 Lbs
Major Attributes: Speed, Strength, Tackling, Vision (+.5
Minor Attributes: Agility, Confidence, Jumping, Stamina (+.25)
Favored Special Abilities: Big Hit
Penalized Special Abilities: Change Direction

Combo Safety
5'8" - 6'4", 185-220 Lbs
Major Attributes: Agility, Speed, Strength, Tackling (+.5)
Minor Attributes: Vision, Confidence, Jumping, Stamina (+.25)
Favored Special Abilities: None
Penalized Special Abilities: None

Combo Safety
5'9" - 6'5", 195-230 Lbs
Major Attributes: Agility, Speed, Strength, Tackling (+.5)
Minor Attributes: Vision, Confidence, Jumping, Stamina (+.25)
Favored Special Abilities: None
Penalized Special Abilities: None

After more analysis, I determined that on the D side, two Archetypes stood out:

Combo Tackle DT

6'0" - 6'8", 280-330 Lbs
Major Attributes: Speed, Strength, Tackling, Vision (+.5)
Minor Attributes: Agility, Confidence, Stamina (+.33)
Favored Special Abilities: None
Penalized Special Abilities: None

The Glare/Shed Blocks/Swat Ball/Strong Base/Big Sack
Wall/Break Thru/Snarl/Big Hit/D-Line General

Bonus SAs:

Monster Hit, Diving Tackle, Wrap Up Tackle, Headhunter, Change Direction, First Step

Pros:

Monster Hit as Bonus SA
Shed Blocks not penalized
280 - 330 lbs
6'0" to 6'8"

Cons:

No Change Direction or First Step
Shed Block requires investment in "The Glare"

Combo End DE
6'2" - 6'6", 260-300 Lbs
Major Attributes: Speed, Strength, Tackling, Vision (+.5)
Minor Attributes: Agility, Confidence, Stamina (+.33)
Favored Special Abilities: None
Penalized Special Abilities: None

Swat Ball/Wall/Strong Base/Diving Tackle/Monster Hit
First Step/Change Direction/Shed Block/Tunnel Vision/Big Sack

Bonus SAs:

Headhunter, Wrap Up Tackle, Big Hit

Pros:

FS/CD 1/2 in rusher SAs
No SA penalties
260-300 Lbs
6'2" - 6'6"

Cons:
Monster hit in last slot, swat ball and Strong Base in tree.


tl;dr version

If you want a great tackling STOP unit, build Combo DTs and DEs.
If you want a great blocking STOP unit, build Cs.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Agree. And also, nothing wrong with splitting up the positions... 2 HHLB's and 2 STOP centers. HH:B's work VERY well against CPU dots and poorly built returners... but against a good/great returner they're just ok. Especially at the very high levels where top returners have super high carrying and "no fumble gear/SA's/VA's". That and they're much harder to get a damn good hit on.

Are you arguing that they don't work?

I have proof they work. SF's old HH LB's outperformed our STOP SS's that were faster and had similar strength values.
And they often led the league in FFum's. Of course, some of these included regular defensive FFum's, but most were in ST play.

I'm a big fan of the HH LB... but I think a DE would do just as well if not better. I just like the way the SAs are laid out, the attributes and such and such.

Edit:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2468922
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2468966

Keep in mind, these weren't built to be STOPs. The ones we're building right now are going to be much faster/higher tackling and have less vision.

Originally posted by Homage
Are you arguing that they don't work?

No... just that they don't work as well against high quality returners as they do against lesser builds and CPU dots. And that they work better at mid-levels than at end of build (you'll have AEQ at mid levels whereas returners are still working on their carrying having spent most of their build time on speed and agility at first). Never said, or meant to imply they don't work.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago

No... just that they don't work as well against high quality returners as they do against lesser builds and CPU dots. And that they work better at mid-levels than at end of build (you'll have AEQ at mid levels whereas returners are still working on their carrying having spent most of their build time on speed and agility at first). Never said, or meant to imply they don't work.


eh well you're merely stating the obvious. of course dawts will perform better against poorly built or CPU dawts.

However, I'm not using CPU or poorly built dawts as a measure of success.

And just a side note, I had a returner with 100 carrying, 15 percent No Fumble and still lost four to five a season in the WL.

and I think it's foolish to argue that dawts are better at lower levels when a huge chunk of that dawts success is based off a fully upgraded AEQ set and some heavy SA investment in things like HH and MH. Not t mention... if you roll with HH, the speed value is still increasing from SP usage and equipment upgrades.

Originally posted by Homage
and I think it's foolish to argue that dawts are better at lower levels when a huge chunk of that dawts success is based off a fully upgraded AEQ set and some heavy SA investment in things like HH and MH. Not t mention... if you roll with HH, the speed value is still increasing from SP usage and equipment upgrades.

What do you know...

Originally posted by rjssob
What do you know...

ironic

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago

No... just that they don't work as well against high quality returners as they do against lesser builds and CPU dots. And that they work better at mid-levels than at end of build (you'll have AEQ at mid levels whereas returners are still working on their carrying having spent most of their build time on speed and agility at first). Never said, or meant to imply they don't work.


dat wink

com at me rj

shots were fired

Originally posted by Shöcks
com at me rj

shots were fired

he was being facetious