Warrior General Games

The question isn't whether high vision does anything--it does--the question is whether it's worth it. A super-high vision CB has been tried before and whatever improvement it had in reading plays was not noticeable in its performance, likely due to the hits the build took elsewhere. It performed averagely at best.

Vision is important because it helps you see. If you can't see, than you don't know what you are looking at.

TBH the only position id really consider super high VIS to be worth it is on a FS playing in zone. The diff between 90 and 100+ is pretty important (including VA). I noticed a big diff in my first HHer who had 85 VIS and my current one who is at 75, although to get to 85 would require quite a bit that im not ready to invest (1st one was part of training engine change so got extra SP's). Like LHF said, its all about what is worth it.

Between Planton, Theo and TT you get the best summary I have seen for vision

Some of my lame dots to compare, all CBs FS and SS with a range of visions and super vision. All played mostly in National Pro.

With the exception of Play Read add 6 to the speed and the coverage bar if looking at the build as I sold their CEQ before retirement. The plus 1 to Super Vision from that is already included below. The last few are active still but in decline so adjust for that when checking them out.


FS Play Read, 95 Vision 10 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=678491

CB Mozilla 96 Vision 10 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2349782

SS Warden 85 Vision 10 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2104271

FS Catch 96 Vision 4 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2349761

CB Harvest 87 Vision 5 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1911955

CB Wrap 89 Vision 9 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1990847

CB Tomcat 90 Vision 9 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2538019

FS Last Stand 88 Vision 3 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2400306

SS God Father 81 Vision 2 Super Vision
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2476131

Just comparing the extremes at the position

High CB Mozilla (96+10) = 33% Allow/Tgt, 3.85 Tgts/Game, 2.05 PDs/Game, 1 KL/18.2 Games**, 1 Int/26.3 Games*, 16% Miss Tkl/Oppty, 3.4 Tckl/Game

Low CB Harvest (87+5) = 41% Allow/Tgt, 3.98 Tgts/Game, 2.05 PDs/Game (yes same), 1 KL/22.6 Games**, 1 Int/20.92 Games*, 26% Miss Tkl/Oppty, 4.01 Tckl/Game

* = I almost always do not go for the interception in tactics

And I just now am thinking that there is a difference over the age range, the Low CB is probably pre-multi training...worse dot over all. So not sure what to take away from this really.

Originally posted by Purple Loki
What's the difference between say 85 vision and 130 vision? Especially for a non QB?
What is the outcome of super high vision? Does vision help break tackles? I just don't understand vision. Sufficient vision would let you see the hole.. or see oncoming defenders.. so what is superior vision supposed to do? Does anyone catch my drift? What if you had vision as your main attribute... is vision 'intelligence'?

Someone explain vision... as best as possible

vision is a type of intelligence .... consider the Football Genius VA ..... (and that very few scholars have won the SB) .... though it might help you win GOLD ..

a passing QB might want to get close to a 1 / .8-1 ratio of throwing to vision so 130 VIS might be in the high range for a passing QB ..... ...... It is very important for QB's to make much more accurate throws ..... consider what is needed for "threading the needle" .....

the difference between 85 and 130 for most positions would (as stated previously) be that you are very much wasting SP's

.... watching your dot(s) play and knowing instinctively when they need more VIS is a part of dotball micromgmt and BillyJoeBob's Instictive Dot Training Principle (not yet available to the public) ....

for a non QB , 85 vis with Football Genius VA would be sufficient for many positions .... and to go over (85) could be overkill .... .....

for rushers , you have to consider the ability to see running lanes ..... they have to find the hole , quickly ..... ...

K's have to be able to see the goalposts ...

vision helps ALL players know what is going on around them ...... also important in avoiding penalties like false start and offsides .....

some guides refer to it as the "6th sense" ........ where all the other ATT's come together to help the dot make wiser , quicker decisions ....... as stated , VIS helps make better football decisions ....

VIS can be overrated ...... predicting better what the opponent is going to do at all times requires 70+ (for some positions) and the FG VA is the bonus ... read the football genius veteran ability explanation ... it's the same for all ...

VIS won't help brk tkls ... it will help your dot avoid tkls and make tkls ...... see the ball .... be the ball , Danny ......

.

See this is the kind of analytics that show the difference. Different dots for different spots. Thats the key-what job-what AI- what the dot is needed to do......not just VIS......you can argue the point for any att. but the plays and what a dot is needed to do drives the number...your number for your team/job

Don't listen to any of CowboysAmerica advise for starters


skibodragula you have a point, but you're talking as a what a coordinator would want; not what an average dot builder would want

Originally posted by jpjn94
Don't listen to any of CowboysAmerica advise for starters


skibodragula you have a point, but you're talking as a what a coordinator would want; not what an average dot builder would want



Well an average dot builder doesn't have to be average if the team is behind the dot.....it still is a team game

Originally posted by jpjn94
Don't listen to any of CowboysAmerica advise for starters

lol .... need less VIS, more VIC .....

no advice given .... only pure truth as the things spoken have all been said before in BETA TIME, WIKI and FAQ .... much like the Greatest Prophet, Priest and KING, JESUS, and the things HE spoke in the NEW TESTAMENT .... all TRUTH regarding LIFE, and GLB, has been spoken, or alluded to in various ways, in previous writings (the OLD TESTAMENT, WIKI, FAQ) .... there's your TRUE VISION ....
if you can't see the TRUTH , it is because you are not looking, or you do not have the capacity (VIS) to do so ...... you might want to bump your training and drop some SP's there #94 ....

When you can win outside of Rookie or Pee Wee, maybe give advice to someone

Originally posted by jpjn94
Don't listen to any of CowboysAmerica advise for starters


skibodragula you have a point, but you're talking as a what a coordinator would want; not what an average dot builder would want



Yeah... taking vision over 100 is insane. Show me a great QB with 120-130 vision that has performed well in Elite/Pro/WL and I'll consider it. Everyone that I have heard that has tried the super high vision route has reported poor performance.

Originally posted by jpjn94


When you can win outside of Rookie or Pee Wee ..... oh, I can and have , but that's not the point ..... maybe give advice to someone .... vis explained as best as possible from my pov while leaving out some of the most obvious info included on the home page is the point , but of course you can't envision that

yeah , I didn't really get into the lolgmtrophy thing , so you have me there .....

but trying to best me will do greatly to point out to your own inadequacies

Originally posted by CowboysAmerica


yeah , I didn't really get into the lolgmtrophy thing , so you have me there .....

but trying to best me will do greatly to point out to your own inadequacies

Yeah!

Originally posted by jpjn94


When you can win outside of Rookie or Pee Wee, maybe give advice to someone



Does your QB even throw the ball?