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Forum > Goal Line Blitz > What the heck makes LTS trigger?
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bhall43
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Originally posted by Darkstrand
the only thing I can find different about ur builds from the 2nd one I linked is you have 15 higher jumping and vision and only 7lts/7pt when he has 10lts/10pt...

unless jumping vision are huge in LTS then it seems to me like 10PT maybe disabling LTS


Originally posted by jdbolick
Remember that tackle-breaking SAs only show up in the PBP when you do break a tackle. So they're actually firing a lot more, but their bonus to the break tackle score wasn't high enough and therefore you got tackled. That means for Lower the Shoulder to show up in the pbp you need the following: #1) Power Through & Spin not to fire, #2) Lower the Shoulder to fire successfully, and #3) for the break tackle score to be close enough to the defender's tackle score for Lower the Shoulder's relatively small bonus to make the difference.


 
Darkstrand
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We're talking about 100+ opportunities where PT did not register and LTS did not register either on some of these backs.

It seems that if LTS can fire then PT can fire and there is an almost zero percent chance LTS will fire once PT is at 10.

It's a pretty severe bug if an SA is 99.5% worthless if you have another SA at 10.
Edited by Darkstrand on May 13, 2013 14:55:21
 
Nokturnus
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Originally posted by Darkstrand
the only thing I can find different about ur builds from the 2nd one I linked is you have 15 higher jumping and vision and only 7lts/7pt when he has 10lts/10pt...

unless jumping vision are huge in LTS then it seems to me like 10PT maybe disabling LTS


You need to look at that again. All of the dot's majors he linked are 10 points higher than the dot you linked except for confidence.
 
Darkstrand
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Originally posted by Nokturnus
You need to look at that again. All of the dot's majors he linked are 10 points higher than the dot you linked except for confidence.


http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2354017 the dot he linked

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2503754 the 2nd dot I linked... referred to as "the 2nd one I linked" in the quoted post.
Edited by Darkstrand on May 13, 2013 14:56:41
Edited by Darkstrand on May 13, 2013 14:56:31
 
Nokturnus
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That's what I get for skimming.
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Darkstrand
unless jumping vision are huge in LTS then it seems to me like 10PT maybe disabling LTS


Originally posted by jdbolick
Remember that tackle-breaking SAs only show up in the PBP when you do break a tackle. So they're actually firing a lot more, but their bonus to the break tackle score wasn't high enough and therefore you got tackled. That means for Lower the Shoulder to show up in the pbp you need the following: #1) Power Through & Spin not to fire, #2) Lower the Shoulder to fire successfully, and #3) for the break tackle score to be close enough to the defender's tackle score for Lower the Shoulder's relatively small bonus to make the difference.


 
Darkstrand
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Look on backs that just have LTS and not PT or not much PT we see LTS fire a lot. so the LTS bonus can be fairly substantial.

Once a PB gets to 10 PT, LTS tends to stop triggering successfully at all in some and possibly all cases (we're talking less than 1 LTS in 100 from the observable data).

This is likely because 1) the angles that LTS can fire at PT will fire at, 2) if PT fails LTS will certainly fail

LTS becoming 99.5% irrelevant at 10+ PT is buggy as hell. That is a complete waste of SP.

Edited by Darkstrand on May 13, 2013 16:39:01
 
DeeVee8
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What would a dot be doing when "Powering Through"? Wouldn't he be "Lowering the Shoulder"?

LTS should be changed to "Sweep The Leg"
 
Darkstrand
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Can anybody find 10-PT counterexamples that are getting decent LTS frequency?
 
BigRatUno
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The statistical questions for a given set of circumstances (SP resources allocated to each/both SAs) should be phrased something like (regardless of overwritten report in the PBP):

What is the probability of LTS firing AND PT firing?
What is the probability of LTS firing AND PT NOT firing?
What is the probability of LTS Not firing AND PT firing?
What is the probability of LTS NOT firing AND PT NOT firing?

The answers to these ? aren't absolutely knowable to us BUT since it's already documented and confirmed by Bort that PT is the stronger SA, the return on investment of SP in SAs favors PT over LTS. Whether it is productive to invest the further SP into LTS to me is still debatable. For Combo archetypes, I prefer to develop receiving.
 
e1iterate
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Originally posted by aaasahi
Originally posted by bhall43

That power back is terrible.




 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Darkstrand
Can anybody find 10-PT counterexamples that are getting decent LTS frequency?

The point you continuously miss is that with a favored Power Through at 10+, it's going to be firing on most tackle attempts.
 
bhall43
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I give up. You can lead a horse to water.
 
Hagalaz
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Originally posted by BigRatUno
The statistical questions for a given set of circumstances (SP resources allocated to each/both SAs) should be phrased something like (regardless of overwritten report in the PBP):

What is the probability of LTS firing AND PT firing?
What is the probability of LTS firing AND PT NOT firing?
What is the probability of LTS Not firing AND PT firing?
What is the probability of LTS NOT firing AND PT NOT firing?

The answers to these ? aren't absolutely knowable to us BUT since it's already documented and confirmed by Bort that PT is the stronger SA, the return on investment of SP in SAs favors PT over LTS. Whether it is productive to invest the further SP into LTS to me is still debatable. For Combo archetypes, I prefer to develop receiving.


Well, but is that really enough? You can have PT fire and not do anything (tackle was not broken) and the same for LTS. This set of questions isn't enough.
 
psi
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he's saying you guys are inconsistent in endorsing using 2 or 3 break tackle SAs while realizing that one of those SA's success, the strongest one, makes the other SAs moot a large percentage of the time.

it's 1 SA and higher attributes, or 2-3 SAs and lower attributes, and frankly I'm also curious why the experts opt for the second choice given that no-SA broken tackles should also be a large percentage of any PB's broken tackles
 
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