Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Catching
22.26
ALGs
Catching
22.26
ALGs
Time Trial
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It is a break tackle specialist, so Vision isn't as important. Vision is mostly to give you those opportunities for faking for a returner imo. With all that speed you may find that seeing those holes on the outside will be tougher; however, as you have said, there are good returners with low vision. They may not see the whole field, but maybe they don't overthink their moves because they don't see too much.
With low vision, high carrying, decent strength, I would actually consider more break tackle abilities like Power Thru, Lower the Shoulder, or Stiff Arm.
With all that speed, you may not need to break too many tackles on punt returns if you break the outside force, but without vision, fake chance, or open field fake you may not hit the jukes and head fakes to make the investment worth it.
I like the fakes on Special Teams because a lot of gunners are building to make tackle and force fumble, but may not have the vision to stop you from making those fakes. It is a matter of balance, but I think this is a solid build if it ever turns out like this.
With low vision, high carrying, decent strength, I would actually consider more break tackle abilities like Power Thru, Lower the Shoulder, or Stiff Arm.
With all that speed, you may not need to break too many tackles on punt returns if you break the outside force, but without vision, fake chance, or open field fake you may not hit the jukes and head fakes to make the investment worth it.
I like the fakes on Special Teams because a lot of gunners are building to make tackle and force fumble, but may not have the vision to stop you from making those fakes. It is a matter of balance, but I think this is a solid build if it ever turns out like this.
Originally posted by Time Trial
It is a break tackle specialist, so Vision isn't as important. Vision is mostly to give you those opportunities for faking for a returner imo. With all that speed you may find that seeing those holes on the outside will be tougher; however, as you have said, there are good returners with low vision. They may not see the whole field, but maybe they don't overthink their moves because they don't see too much.
With low vision, high carrying, decent strength, I would actually consider more break tackle abilities like Power Thru, Lower the Shoulder, or Stiff Arm.
With all that speed, you may not need to break too many tackles on punt returns if you break the outside force, but without vision, fake chance, or open field fake you may not hit the jukes and head fakes to make the investment worth it.
I like the fakes on Special Teams because a lot of gunners are building to make tackle and force fumble, but may not have the vision to stop you from making those fakes. It is a matter of balance, but I think this is a solid build if it ever turns out like this.
with the 2 VA's ST and RM, 50 vision = 80
so it really isn't that low
It is a break tackle specialist, so Vision isn't as important. Vision is mostly to give you those opportunities for faking for a returner imo. With all that speed you may find that seeing those holes on the outside will be tougher; however, as you have said, there are good returners with low vision. They may not see the whole field, but maybe they don't overthink their moves because they don't see too much.
With low vision, high carrying, decent strength, I would actually consider more break tackle abilities like Power Thru, Lower the Shoulder, or Stiff Arm.
With all that speed, you may not need to break too many tackles on punt returns if you break the outside force, but without vision, fake chance, or open field fake you may not hit the jukes and head fakes to make the investment worth it.
I like the fakes on Special Teams because a lot of gunners are building to make tackle and force fumble, but may not have the vision to stop you from making those fakes. It is a matter of balance, but I think this is a solid build if it ever turns out like this.
with the 2 VA's ST and RM, 50 vision = 80
so it really isn't that low
Time Trial
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Originally posted by reddogrw
with the 2 VA's ST and RM, 50 vision = 80
so it really isn't that low
It is given the number of dots and the distance between them. Also, as you clearly know the math, one more point of vision is equal to 1.6 more points in vision.
50 Vision = 80 vision with VAs
60 Vision = 96 Vision with VAs.
80 Vision = 128 Vision with VAs.
The investment is the greatest increase in all of GLB.
I'm not saying you have to make that investment, but the returns on that investment certainly favour it (at least much more so than for an ordinary rushing HB).
with the 2 VA's ST and RM, 50 vision = 80
so it really isn't that low
It is given the number of dots and the distance between them. Also, as you clearly know the math, one more point of vision is equal to 1.6 more points in vision.
50 Vision = 80 vision with VAs
60 Vision = 96 Vision with VAs.
80 Vision = 128 Vision with VAs.
The investment is the greatest increase in all of GLB.
I'm not saying you have to make that investment, but the returns on that investment certainly favour it (at least much more so than for an ordinary rushing HB).
Sellars
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Catching
22.26
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
Catching
22.26
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
Edited by Sellars on Jan 28, 2013 17:29:51
Time Trial
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Originally posted by Sellars
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
Well, GLB should recognize the effectiveness of the elusive HB arch and make the returner arch 4 majors and 4 minors.
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
Well, GLB should recognize the effectiveness of the elusive HB arch and make the returner arch 4 majors and 4 minors.
Sellars
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I agree but its probably NGTH since I dnt think they plan to ever change any arch's or SA trees.
Originally posted by Sellars
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner.
Thanks for the clarification!
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner.
Thanks for the clarification!
jdbolick
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Every returner should have jumping at least single capped.
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner. Thanks for the clarification!
Elusive HB is a far, far superior archetype to Returner HB simply because it's a .5 major instead of a .4. You'd be absolutely crazy to pick the Returner archetype for a HB.
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner. Thanks for the clarification!
Elusive HB is a far, far superior archetype to Returner HB simply because it's a .5 major instead of a .4. You'd be absolutely crazy to pick the Returner archetype for a HB.
Time Trial
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner.
Thanks for the clarification!
You have a scat back HB and not an elusive HB, and you really don't get the full effect of how much better it is until you are finished the build.
The Elusive HB has .5 ALGs on Speed, Agility, Carrying, and Vision. You get bonuses to Head Fake and Juke.
The Returner HB has .4 ALGs on Speed, Agility, Carrying, Vision, and Stamina. You get bonuses to First Step and Quick Cut.
Higher ALGs in the four main attributes for an elusive returner make it a gimme.
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner.
Thanks for the clarification!
You have a scat back HB and not an elusive HB, and you really don't get the full effect of how much better it is until you are finished the build.
The Elusive HB has .5 ALGs on Speed, Agility, Carrying, and Vision. You get bonuses to Head Fake and Juke.
The Returner HB has .4 ALGs on Speed, Agility, Carrying, Vision, and Stamina. You get bonuses to First Step and Quick Cut.
Higher ALGs in the four main attributes for an elusive returner make it a gimme.
Originally posted by jdbolick
Every returner should have jumping at least single capped.
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner. Thanks for the clarification!
Elusive HB is a far, far superior archetype to Returner HB simply because it's a .5 major instead of a .4. You'd be absolutely crazy to pick the Returner archetype for a HB.
agreed
ran both through the VPB
Originally posted by reddogrw
HB returner - using Elusive HB archetype
EL = 1521.6
Bonus Tokens: 1130
Attributes:
strength : 71.26
speed : 104.1
agility : 97.1
jumping : 27
stamina : 63.26
vision : 60.1
confidence : 40.26
catching : 22.26
carrying : 92.1
Top SA Tree: | 7 | 9 | 5 | 9 | 10 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Additional SA Tree: | 8 |---> Return Specialist
1 Spin AE
+21% Fake
+15% BT
Originally posted by reddogrw
CB Returner
EL = 1396
Bonus Tokens: 1251
Attributes:
strength : 71
speed : 102.38
agility : 95.38
jumping : 44
stamina : 62.38
vision : 63.38
confidence : 40
carrying : 89.38
Top SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 5 | 8 | 9 | 1 | 1 |
Additional SA Tree: | 6 | ---> Spin
1 Spin AE
+21% Fake
+15% BT
as far as jumping, I don't know if it needs to be capped, but you definitely should train it up - the elusive HB could have used a little more in that VPB run
Every returner should have jumping at least single capped.
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Gotcha. Although I somewhat disagree with elusive HB's vs Returner HB's... I have both and I can clearly see the difference in the secondary skill sets and how they apply to purely returning. I DO agree that an elusive HB is a great substitute for a returner if you don't have the CB or HB returner. And I'd even go as far to say that cost is really the ONLY notable difference between a CB returner and a HB returner... in fact, in usefulness OUTSIDE returning, the HB should outshine the CB. Lastly, having built WR returners I agree... you simply cannot get the total impact from the dot as you do the HB or CB returner. Thanks for the clarification!
Elusive HB is a far, far superior archetype to Returner HB simply because it's a .5 major instead of a .4. You'd be absolutely crazy to pick the Returner archetype for a HB.
agreed
ran both through the VPB
Originally posted by reddogrw
HB returner - using Elusive HB archetype
EL = 1521.6
Bonus Tokens: 1130
Attributes:
strength : 71.26
speed : 104.1
agility : 97.1
jumping : 27
stamina : 63.26
vision : 60.1
confidence : 40.26
catching : 22.26
carrying : 92.1
Top SA Tree: | 7 | 9 | 5 | 9 | 10 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Additional SA Tree: | 8 |---> Return Specialist
1 Spin AE
+21% Fake
+15% BT
Originally posted by reddogrw
CB Returner
EL = 1396
Bonus Tokens: 1251
Attributes:
strength : 71
speed : 102.38
agility : 95.38
jumping : 44
stamina : 62.38
vision : 63.38
confidence : 40
carrying : 89.38
Top SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 5 | 8 | 9 | 1 | 1 |
Additional SA Tree: | 6 | ---> Spin
1 Spin AE
+21% Fake
+15% BT
as far as jumping, I don't know if it needs to be capped, but you definitely should train it up - the elusive HB could have used a little more in that VPB run
Edited by reddogrw on Jan 28, 2013 21:09:16
Originally posted by Sellars
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Catching
22.26
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
I would use a free dot as a WR returner over a CB returner (if free HB's are not available) as the SA's are far better for the WR returner
Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Catching
22.26
People are using elusive HB's now since they are 10times better than CB/returner arch dots. Also no reason for GLB to offer returen arch for WR or HB anymore. CB maybe since its less flex but returner HB is faceroll arch. That's why he ended up with the catching in his VPB.
I would use a free dot as a WR returner over a CB returner (if free HB's are not available) as the SA's are far better for the WR returner
jdbolick
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Originally posted by reddogrw
as far as jumping, I don't know if it needs to be capped
First capped is actually the minimum it should be. Returners could probably benefit from second capping it.
as far as jumping, I don't know if it needs to be capped
First capped is actually the minimum it should be. Returners could probably benefit from second capping it.
Originally posted by jdbolick
Elusive HB is a far, far superior archetype to Returner HB simply because it's a .5 major instead of a .4. You'd be absolutely crazy to pick the Returner archetype for a HB.
I'll try that with my next returner... but I'm rock solid with the 2 I have now (one CB one HB) and no complaints at all.
Elusive HB is a far, far superior archetype to Returner HB simply because it's a .5 major instead of a .4. You'd be absolutely crazy to pick the Returner archetype for a HB.
I'll try that with my next returner... but I'm rock solid with the 2 I have now (one CB one HB) and no complaints at all.
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