Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Time Trial
When you design a play, you usually design it considering what tags you plan to apply to the usage of that play.

Like, if you tag a blocking TE and a power HB with a Rushing QB in the Singleback formation, you are telling yourself what threats you need to be worried about and what threats you are less likely to be concerned with.

If you know you are dealing with a rushing QB, the first thing you need to do is make sure that your outside is covered. Because you have a power HB and blocking TE, you are also going to be concerned with the inside rush. It is unlikely that they are planning to pass the ball with this set, and how slavish you are to the tagging will determine how aggressive you can be. I usually set someone to man coverage even on a blocking TE, but I also set the coverage to someone with more strength by subbing in my LOLB1 or LILB1 (depending on who is set to cover him).

Tagging will sometimes determine if you are going to blitz from the inside or outside, or if you are going to play a four man front and use flats on the DE, etc.

What I've done for run defense is I'll put everybody in man coverage. But set the second option for each player to blitz. So if they go out for a pass, they're covered. If they stay in to block, you plug the gap and limit their gain if any. I'll do this even with the CBs. So when a rushing QB gets in, they can help on the outside.

I think I'm getting this now. It seems to me that this is the DC's response to the tricksy OC who will mix up his formations. It also ensures that you can go some way to neutralising the principle offensive threats by having play calls that will deal with their presence.

Essentially then, you need to create 1 or more DAI playcalls for each type of tagged player, ie I set up a Tagged Power HB defensive input and it's respective output(s) to deal with him, a tagged Receiving HB input and it's outputs and so on, right through the tagging possibilities. Put these at the top of the input order, or at least before the rest of your DAI playcalling and then everything is always in place - all you need to do is change your tags each time you scout? (Long question)

A puzzle arises, and I think it may have been answered above, but just to clarify - let's say your opponent is a 'passing first' side and uses their backs as their go to guys. I tag the players as Receiving HB and FB. I set up an input for each, or an input where both appear on the field together. The problem (or puzzle) arises when you consider the number of formations they could appear in and the number of possible passing plays you would need to defend against. Surely, you don't need to create a host of outputs to deal with every situation,just as you would with the whole DAI? Or is it rather (and much more simply) that you create an output that double covers the tagged player(s) whilst maintaining coverage and zone against the rest of the offensive threat?

Or, is it really as simple as Fumanchuchu suggests, just tag the two blocker roles at TE and FB (and maybe rQB) and let your defence do its job through your standard playcalling which will have considered in some way the threat posed by every offensive position?

Crikey! This is complicated!

Or is it?

Should I leave well alone until I have worked out a way to just defend effectively as a team and then worry about how I tag specific opponents?

Originally posted by Makntak
I think I'm getting this now. It seems to me that this is the DC's response to the tricksy OC who will mix up his formations. It also ensures that you can go some way to neutralising the principle offensive threats by having play calls that will deal with their presence.

Essentially then, you need to create 1 or more DAI playcalls for each type of tagged player, ie I set up a Tagged Power HB defensive input and it's respective output(s) to deal with him, a tagged Receiving HB input and it's outputs and so on, right through the tagging possibilities. Put these at the top of the input order, or at least before the rest of your DAI playcalling and then everything is always in place - all you need to do is change your tags each time you scout? (Long question)

A puzzle arises, and I think it may have been answered above, but just to clarify - let's say your opponent is a 'passing first' side and uses their backs as their go to guys. I tag the players as Receiving HB and FB. I set up an input for each, or an input where both appear on the field together. The problem (or puzzle) arises when you consider the number of formations they could appear in and the number of possible passing plays you would need to defend against. Surely, you don't need to create a host of outputs to deal with every situation,just as you would with the whole DAI? Or is it rather (and much more simply) that you create an output that double covers the tagged player(s) whilst maintaining coverage and zone against the rest of the offensive threat?

Or, is it really as simple as Fumanchuchu suggests, just tag the two blocker roles at TE and FB (and maybe rQB) and let your defence do its job through your standard playcalling which will have considered in some way the threat posed by every offensive position?

Crikey! This is complicated!

Or is it?

Should I leave well alone until I have worked out a way to just defend effectively as a team and then worry about how I tag specific opponents?




You understand the DAI and tagging so Now you have to use that knowledge and experiment and see what works and what doesn't and adjust accordingly. You could try to simplify things but if you find your getting burned by those players than you many need to create separate input/outputs for that exact situation so you don't get burned anymore.

You understand how it works.....now go adapt and overcome

Originally posted by whodey08
You understand the DAI and tagging so Now you have to use that knowledge and experiment and see what works and what doesn't and adjust accordingly. You could try to simplify things but if you find your getting burned by those players than you many need to create separate input/outputs for that exact situation so you don't get burned anymore.

You understand how it works.....now go adapt and overcome

Excellent - thanks Whodey

Originally posted by Makntak
I think I'm getting this now. It seems to me that this is the DC's response to the tricksy OC who will mix up his formations. It also ensures that you can go some way to neutralising the principle offensive threats by having play calls that will deal with their presence.

Essentially then, you need to create 1 or more DAI playcalls for each type of tagged player, ie I set up a Tagged Power HB defensive input and it's respective output(s) to deal with him, a tagged Receiving HB input and it's outputs and so on, right through the tagging possibilities. Put these at the top of the input order, or at least before the rest of your DAI playcalling and then everything is always in place - all you need to do is change your tags each time you scout? (Long question)

Most teams have very similar personnel groups so you will find yourself setting the same tags for every opponent.

Originally posted by

A puzzle arises, and I think it may have been answered above, but just to clarify - let's say your opponent is a 'passing first' side and uses their backs as their go to guys. I tag the players as Receiving HB and FB. I set up an input for each, or an input where both appear on the field together. The problem (or puzzle) arises when you consider the number of formations they could appear in and the number of possible passing plays you would need to defend against. Surely, you don't need to create a host of outputs to deal with every situation,just as you would with the whole DAI? Or is it rather (and much more simply) that you create an output that double covers the tagged player(s) whilst maintaining coverage and zone against the rest of the offensive threat?

Or, is it really as simple as Fumanchuchu suggests, just tag the two blocker roles at TE and FB (and maybe rQB) and let your defence do its job through your standard playcalling which will have considered in some way the threat posed by every offensive position?

It gets plenty complicated with just those 2 tags because they come in different combinations. for a single formation you can have:

Blocker TE/Blocker FB
Blocker TE/untagged FB
untagged TE/Blocker FB
untagged TE/untagged FB

For Big I there's even more because you can have different combinations of BTE and TE along with the FB.

For me, I just go by WR count because the difference between Weak I and Strong I is much less significant than the difference between a Blocker TE and a Recieving TE.

Part of the challenge of DCing is covering as many different looks as possible without ending up with 300 inputs.
Originally posted by

Crikey! This is complicated!

Or is it?

No, It is.
Originally posted by

Should I leave well alone until I have worked out a way to just defend effectively as a team and then worry about how I tag specific opponents?


I recommend starting with a simple AI that only looks for blocking TEs and expanding from there as you get more comfortable. Try to find solid base plays that cover all threats without trying to sell out for one particular play. I like to work from what the tagged dots can't do rather than what they can. You know a blocking TE isn't going to burn your coverage so you can single cover him with your worst coverage dot and allow the other 10 players to worry about the other threats on the field.

I don't recommend tagging Power HBs because they're not likely to do anything a regular HB wouldn't do.

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
I recommend starting with a simple AI that only looks for blocking TEs and expanding from there as you get more comfortable. Try to find solid base plays that cover all threats without trying to sell out for one particular play. I like to work from what the tagged dots can't do rather than what they can. You know a blocking TE isn't going to burn your coverage so you can single cover him with your worst coverage dot and allow the other 10 players to worry about the other threats on the field.

I don't recommend tagging Power HBs because they're not likely to do anything a regular HB wouldn't do.

Thanks Fumanchuchu - interesting advice

Fumanchuchu said it best..