Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jdbolick

OTs [that are] are extremely well built [will] usually hold their blocks, but it's [often] better to engage the DE as far from the QB as possible to allow for re-engagement when the block is eventually broken.

edit:
To clarify, high speed is not as bad as First Step because FS can actually make the OT go beyond the drop-back point. Still, I would rather have my OTs engaging as far away from the QB as possible.

At some point, I hope you learn the difference between "this is false" and "there is a counterpoint to be noted."



We are largely in agreement, it's not a fight.

I edited your above post to show where we agree. However, higher speed at OT does help with certain running plays, and does help in pass protection where the OT rolls off to catch a blitzer or in the (rare) circumstances where they pull across the QB to try to defend an overload, or in making secondary blocks on extended plays.

The degree to which the benefits noted counterbalance the fact that a faster OT is engaging the DE closer to the QB will depend on the overall competence of the OT as well as the sort of offense you run.

Faster has benefits and doesn't make for a worse dot.

Originally posted by tautology
At some point, I hope you learn the difference between "this is false" and "there is a counterpoint to be noted."
If you had stated that you believe high speed on an OT has positives that outweighed the negatives, I would have disagreed and yet it would have been a valid statement. Asserting that there are no negatives by posting "speed is not going to hurt your OT" was false. Please be more conscious of your wording in the future.

Originally posted by
Faster has benefits and doesn't make for a worse dot.
See? You make the same false statement here. Whether or not high speed on an OT makes for a better or worse dot is debatable. Stating definitively that there aren't negatives from high speed on an OT is incorrect.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2408561
I'm particularly pleased with the season this OT is having.


http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2447355
this dot is his backup and has ~10 less agility and ~10 more speed and from the stats, you can see he is getting his ass kicked at a far more regular pace. Could it be SAs? yes but I'm not sure about that. (also, the second one is younger but much more well built that the other)
Neither have first step, i think its been proven that first step on a pass blocking OT is bad

Originally posted by jdbolick

[argumentation]



Good lord.

Here's how I would put it "definitively."

The most critical elements for OTs are the suite of skills required to engage and hold blocks effectively. If you have those skills in place, your OT can enjoy benefits from having more speed.

However, having higher speed on an OT with poor or inadequate blocking skills can actually exacerbate blocking failure issues due to a quicker/deeper drop back.

Therefore, more speed can make a good OT more valuable, while more speed might actually make a poor OT less valuable.

But the point is, speed is not what makes your OT good or bad. It's your blocking skills that determine this.

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by jdbolick


[argumentation]



Good lord.

Here's how I would put it "definitively."

The most critical elements for OTs are the suite of skills required to engage and hold blocks effectively. If you have those skills in place, your OT can enjoy benefits from having more speed.

However, having higher speed on an OT with poor or inadequate blocking skills can actually exacerbate blocking failure issues due to a quicker/deeper drop back.

Therefore, more speed can make a good OT more valuable, while more speed might actually make a poor OT less valuable.

But the point is, speed is not what makes your OT good or bad. It's your blocking skills that determine this.








Big +1

The hold block interaction is everything.

Originally posted by tautology
But the point is, speed is not what makes your OT good or bad.
I realize that you're still arguing this because you are incapable of ever admitting that you made a mistake about anything, but please just stop. You have stated multiple times that there are no negatives to having high speed on an OT and that's definitively wrong. Even on a well built OT, there are still negatives to high speed because all blockers will lose blocks eventually and the more space you have away from the quarterback the better. Again, I don't have a problem with you arguing your belief that high speed has more positives than negatives, but please stop asserting the false notion that speed has no negatives.

Originally posted by jdbolick

I realize that you're still arguing this because you are incapable of ever admitting that you made a mistake about anything, but please just stop.



I thought you might be capable of having a rational conversation that didn't degenerate into you intentionally parsing my quotes to misrepresent the context of my point in order to create false dichotomy that you could then try to spin into an argument over "who is right."

But I was wrong, and I freely admit it.


For everyone else out there....My OTs have speed ranging from 83 to 86 and I am glad it's that high, and I would not make it lower if I had the chance.

Take that for whatever it's worth....specific and useful advice for folks building their OTs and wondering about the effects of speed. Just don't forget the context: Your blocking skills are your primary concern and will make or break your build's effectiveness.

I quoted you accurately and haven't misrepresented anything. You've repeatedly made a false statement and should stop doing so.

Originally posted by jdbolick

I realize that you're still arguing this because you are incapable of ever admitting that you made a mistake about anything,




the pot calling the kettle black much? Taut is one of the clearest writers ive met in this game, and best dot builders. Everyone I think grasps what he's said to this point, its not rocket science. However, the discussion that has gone on has been entertaining AND informative, success!

From everything I have seen over the last few seasons. 90 speed OT > 70 Speed OT

Originally posted by TheGreatAus
the pot calling the kettle black much?
The one time tautology proved me wrong about something, I publicly acknowledged it and thanked him. Meanwhile I have proven tautology definitively wrong about many things regarding the sim and he has never once admitted to being wrong. In fact, I've never seen him acknowledge being wrong to anyone except for the smartass comment earlier in this thread. I get why you view tautology as knowledgeable since he does know more about the game than you do, but ask some of the people in Mike Rogers' forum about how frequently wrong he is regarding the sim. This past season we had it out because tautology insisted that there was nothing wrong with defenders skating by receivers on deep passes or deep zones reacting to short routes, asserting that both were build problems, and I think Bort coding a fix for both issues shows he was incorrect yet again.

Originally posted by tautology

For everyone else out there....My OTs have speed ranging from 83 to 86 and I am glad it's that high, and I would not make it lower if I had the chance.


That's interesting. My LT has 76 speed and I often wish he had less because of dropping back too far.

Originally posted by jdbolick
tlr

its guys like you that ruin it for everyone else. Stop just trying to be a know it all already. Different strokes for different folks. Im pretty sure this kind of success says that he has atleast an inkling about this game: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=4392 . Out of the top teams in the WL, Macchu Picchu has the highest EFF LVL ... no matter what you say, he's got cred, and proven credit at that. deal.

Originally posted by Golan
That's interesting. My LT has 76 speed and I often wish he had less because of dropping back too far.


I suspect everyone has a take on the other skills of OT's such as speed, agility, ect... but I totally agree with the HUGE gist of most posts here. Unless your OT can block effectively, speed won't save him. My own personal take on speed for OT's is not as high as others. I prefer to address speed as a 4th or even 5th ranked skill (Strength, blocking, agility, vision... and perhaps even confidence before speed.) It's important (speed), but not at the expense of the primary skills.