Warrior General Games

Actually, I think catch fake should work the same as pump fake mostly. That is to say it should not effect (virtually never) any defender in man2man coverage. Like the OP says, if you're in man coverage and you see your guy looking like he's about to catch a ball, you close and pounce. But it WOULD work if you were in zone and got "faked" into coverage and/or leaving your zone to stop the perceived catch... just as pump fake does. Basically those kind of "fakes" are mostly directed at safeties... even some LB's... not CB's. That's why high vision is such a desired thing for safeties. (duh!)
So the question is, does catch fake cause the same reactions as pump fake? If so, does it effect the same dots in the same manner? If not, and if catch fake effects man2man coverage, then it's wrong and should change. If so, then this isn't an issue needed to change. Just an issue DC's need to have in mind when setting up their defenses.

Posting replays of the top teams in the game with great protection, great QB's (Tebow) and obv great wr's... Not as easy as we make it out to be

a season ago we wanted dots to do things.. Now we're asking to make dots stop doing things!!

Originally posted by snakes22
Posting replays of the top teams in the game with great protection, great QB's (Tebow) and obv great wr's... Not as easy as we make it out to be

a season ago we wanted dots to do things.. Now we're asking to make dots stop doing things!!XD

A little to the left... no, no... right... no... left... AHhhhhhhh. There. Yes. Scratch there.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Actually, I think catch fake should work the same as pump fake mostly. That is to say it should not effect (virtually never) any defender in man2man coverage. Like the OP says, if you're in man coverage and you see your guy looking like he's about to catch a ball, you close and pounce. But it WOULD work if you were in zone and got "faked" into coverage and/or leaving your zone to stop the perceived catch... just as pump fake does. Basically those kind of "fakes" are mostly directed at safeties... even some LB's... not CB's. That's why high vision is such a desired thing for safeties. (duh!)
So the question is, does catch fake cause the same reactions as pump fake? If so, does it effect the same dots in the same manner? If not, and if catch fake effects man2man coverage, then it's wrong and should change. If so, then this isn't an issue needed to change. Just an issue DC's need to have in mind when setting up their defenses.

well this makes zero sense.

You don't change how the SA works. You gotta change the things you can do to manage against it.

Starting with some certain defensive VA thoughts and tactic changes. Would all need to be worked out properly tho.

Originally posted by bhall43
well this makes zero sense.

I played safety so this comes from personal experience. When I was in man2man assignment, I don't care how many times the QB pumped the ball... or if some guy I wasn't covering was screaming, "I GOT IT! I GOT IT!" and flapping his arms, my assignment was the man I'm supposed to cover. Period. If I left that assignment, for any reason, I guarantee you I'd be hearing it from my coach AFTER he jerked my ass off the field to explain things to me.
BUT, If I was in zone coverage, yeah... I'd be watching the QB and the receivers to get a break on the ball early. Sometimes I got duped, but not too much. I usually waited until I saw the ball in the air... but I'd hedge my bets based on where the QB was looking and sometimes where the WR was looking (if he's looking back, he's thinking the pass should be coming because he feels open or has reached the *spot* in his route where he expects to see a pas coming, if it is).
I know this isn't real football, but I think an attempt should be made to keep it as real as it can be.

Originally posted by Time Trial
it does work IRL, but not the way it works in GLB... you have to slow down or stop to make the defender bite.
In GLB the dot doesn't have to slow down at all to sell a catch fake.

Really what you are describing is a juke or a head fake. And jukes and head fakes should be just as important if not moreso than catch fakes for getting open. However, as it is, jukes and head fakes are almost useless for routes and catch fake is everything.

Either way, the underlying point is the same: Catch fake is basically the same problem GLB had with juke rays or whatever in season 10. You could just make defenders fall all over themselves while the offensive player is still moving at full speed.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Originally posted by bhall43

well this makes zero sense.

I played safety so this comes from personal experience.

bhall is right. What you said makes zero sense. Man defenders are looking at the receiver. Zone defenders are looking at the quarterback. Pump fakes should affect zone defenders and cause them to get out of position. Catch fakes should affect man defenders but it should absolutely not cause them to just stop.

Originally posted by bhall43
You don't change how the SA works. You gotta change the things you can do to manage against it.

Starting with some certain defensive VA thoughts and tactic changes. Would all need to be worked out properly tho.

Defensive VA thoughts to counter catch fake? Whatchu talkin' bout willis?

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I like it the way it is now.

I own both WR's and CB's. Sometimes i'm the windshield, sometimes i'm the bug.

I didn't bother looking past the 1st replay, where the CB looked like he was reacting to an exlax shake he downed before gametime. No catch fake in the world would give a WR a 10 yard separation and cause a CB to shit all over himself.

Originally posted by TrevJo
Really what you are describing is a juke or a head fake. And jukes and head fakes should be just as important if not moreso than catch fakes for getting open. However, as it is, jukes and head fakes are almost useless for routes and catch fake is everything.

Either way, the underlying point is the same: Catch fake is basically the same problem GLB had with juke rays or whatever in season 10. You could just make defenders fall all over themselves while the offensive player is still moving at full speed.



Trev, I'm probably doing a rotten job of putting this in print but if you read carefully what I posted you'll notice I point out how catch fake seems to work against dots NOT locked in man2man... when it shouldn't. I agree that, a catch fake for the man in man coverage does (and should) work... although it's effect is usually more of the man covering to lose track of his man when he turns his head to see the non-existant incoming pass. Seldom do I see anyone simply stop in their tracks or fall down (unless they get their feet tangled) though. It works great on out routes and curls... you fake the catch and then make your move while the guy covering you is looking for the ball. Boom. Wide open. I just feel that catch fake should ONLY work on the man in man coverage of the WR in question... not the other DB's or anyone in zone.

Originally posted by Time Trial
I do this to defenders IRL all the time. You run a streak, turn back like you are making a catch, the defender jumps the route, and you keep going, this time the defender is underneath instead of over the route. The difference is only a few steps, but it does work IRL, but not the way it works in GLB... you have to slow down or stop to make the defender bite. In GLB the dot doesn't have to slow down at all to sell a catch fake.

I know exactly what you're saying. I play WR as well, and that's one of my favorites on a streak actually. But what I'm saying is, that's not so much of a catch fake as much as a head fake (if we're talking about the same thing here). A catch fake, IMO, is when you raise your hands up like you're going up for a catch. The thing you and I are talking about is something more like throwing your head to get the defender to bite, but it's not like you raise up your hands in that situation. Randy Moss and Jerry Rice do throw that little head fake on streaks and posts, but I have never seen some receiver randomly raise their hands up in the middle of a route to fake a defender.

Sorry if this is a little confusing, very difficult to get this across in words.

Originally posted by jetsown09
I know exactly what you're saying. I play WR as well, and that's one of my favorites on a streak actually. But what I'm saying is, that's not so much of a catch fake as much as a head fake (if we're talking about the same thing here). A catch fake, IMO, is when you raise your hands up like you're going up for a catch. The thing you and I are talking about is something more like throwing your head to get the defender to bite, but it's not like you raise up your hands in that situation. Randy Moss and Jerry Rice do throw that little head fake on streaks and posts, but I have never seen some receiver randomly raise their hands up in the middle of a route to fake a defender.

Sorry if this is a little confusing, very difficult to get this across in words.

I get you and agree. Most of the time I ever saw anyone use a "catchfake" was on breaking routes. They'd make like it was an inside slant and fake the catch, then break to an out pattern while the CB attempted to jump the route (and I'd have to run like hell to cover the WR and keep him from streaking down the sideline ) And Time Trial is partly right... but even if the catch fake causes the CB to get underneath the route, he's still not stopping completely or falling down. Either way this, I believe, is what the OP is about... to make sure that the fake works only on the dots it is supposed to AND that it doesn't over-do it by causing a complete breakdown of coverage.

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