Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2091456&pbp_id=7432481
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2091456&pbp_id=7430860

Eat shit.
It's comical that you post these without realizing that they prove me correct. Do you even know what the speed script is? If so, you apparently don't know how to use it. The speed the returner travels over the last ten yards is equal to the highest speed they show during the entire play. The stuttering action they show after clearing the defenders is not due to energy decline, but rather that weird pathing issue for very low vision players. Again, it's fine that you know very little about the sim but please do not come in FAQ and post wrong information.

In the OP's link, the returner is going slower at the end of the play. He's bouncing between 30 and 32 in the first part and dipping from 30 to 28 at the end.

Seems pretty clear.


LHF's replays are lolnotrelevant though.

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
In the OP's link, the returner is going slower at the end of the play. He's bouncing between 30 and 32 in the first part and dipping from 30 to 28 at the end. Seems pretty clear. LHF's replays are lolnotrelevant though.
On pabst's speed script it's showing a constant speed on the straight-away. Keep in mind that because of rounding (thanks tautology), speed on diagonal movement and speed on purely vertical movement will show different results even if they're actually the same speed. Again, it's pretty obvious that energy decline during a play does not affect the player in real-time. The energy lost will only affect the player the next play they're on the field.

Originally posted by jdbolick

On pabst's speed script it's showing a constant speed on the straight-away. Keep in mind that because of rounding (thanks tautology), speed on diagonal movement and speed on purely vertical movement will show different results even if they're actually the same speed. Again, it's pretty obvious that energy decline during a play does not affect the player in real-time. The energy lost will only affect the player the next play they're on the field.

Ok yeah, the 30-32 portion is all diagonal, so that takes most of it out.

But the graph for the straitaway looks like this ----------v-------v-----v---v, so the dips below thirty are increasing in frequency.

I think I've got the pabst version that goes with the re-write that has the 2 lines and the animate function.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2101550&pbp_id=7513056

This does the same thing, he starts the straitaway at 87 energy and finishes at 78 and the graph has the same pattern where the valleys increase in frequency the lower his energy gets, it looks to me like he's losing a fractional amount of speed.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2070368&pbp_id=7520909

Same thing here only his graph has peaks that get less and less frequent as he goes from 89 to 81 energy. Like this _____^_______^__________^_____________^

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2091456&pbp_id=7432481
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2091456&pbp_id=7430860

Eat shit.



The way you responded got a good chuckle out of me

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2101550&pbp_id=7513056

This does the same thing, he starts the straitaway at 87 energy and finishes at 78 and the graph has the same pattern where the valleys increase in frequency the lower his energy gets, it looks to me like he's losing a fractional amount of speed.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2070368&pbp_id=7520909

Same thing here only his graph has peaks that get less and less frequent as he goes from 89 to 81 energy. Like this _____^_______^__________^_____________^


I'm not seeing anything like what you're describing so I must have a different speed script. Moreover, keep in mind that energy loss has huge effects on attributes, not little blips like you're talking about. You're just wrong, dude. Whatever energy penalty you have is determined at the start of the play and only then. Energy lost during a play only applies at the start of the next play.

Originally posted by jdbolick

I'm not seeing anything like what you're describing so I must have a different speed script. Moreover, keep in mind that energy loss has huge effects on attributes, not little blips like you're talking about. You're just wrong, dude. Whatever energy penalty you have is determined at the start of the play and only then. Energy lost during a play only applies at the start of the next play.

Even I would tend to agree with this if only because of the following; I imagine, from a game designer's viewpoint, that coding for GLB follows the typical adage of, "keep it simple". Trying to code for a decline in ability to coincide with the stamina loss takes much more effort than simply coding it as static throughout the play. In that manner, the assumption of any loss of any ability is set pre-snap by the energy level that player had at the time of the snap of the ball. Energy lost during the play would effect the next play. I suspect the visual of the energy bar depleting during the running of the play is just that... a visual only for effect, showing stamina lost during the play. Just my 2 centavos. :shrug:

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Even I would tend to agree with this if only because of the following; I imagine, from a game designer's viewpoint, that coding for GLB follows the typical adage of, "keep it simple". Trying to code for a decline in ability to coincide with the stamina loss takes much more effort than simply coding it as static throughout the play. In that manner, the assumption of any loss of any ability is set pre-snap by the energy level that player had at the time of the snap of the ball. Energy lost during the play would effect the next play. I suspect the visual of the energy bar depleting during the running of the play is just that... a visual only for effect, showing stamina lost during the play. Just my 2 centavos. :shrug:

this....plus.....you have to remember there are SA's and att's that can break stamina and morale at the same time...those do have an effect on the overall energy.......

Originally posted by jdbolick

I'm not seeing anything like what you're describing so I must have a different speed script. Moreover, keep in mind that energy loss has huge effects on attributes, not little blips like you're talking about. You're just wrong, dude. Whatever energy penalty you have is determined at the start of the play and only then. Energy lost during a play only applies at the start of the next play.

Well the script I'm using shows him slowing down, I'm not imagining it, what is your evidence that it is not effective in-play? Losing 1-5% of you speed doesn't equate to a huge jump on that graph.

I'll try to find a link for the script I'm using, it shows both the red line and green line declining.

edit: here it is: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/56383 goes with pabst's replay rewrite: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/31640

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
Well the script I'm using shows him slowing down, I'm not imagining it, what is your evidence that it is not effective in-play? Losing 1-5% of you speed doesn't equate to a huge jump on that graph.
If a guy was slowing down then the line would drop. It doesn't. And yes, losing 5+% of your speed would most definitely show up on the graph. How do you think I finally proved to Bort that chemistry wasn't turned off for scrims back in the day? Again, this dot loses over half of his energy in one play: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1979849&pbp_id=5063219 If energy effects were recalculated throughout the play then he would have shown substantial speed loss by the end of the return. Instead he's hitting the same max speed he did at the beginning.

Originally posted by jdbolick

If a guy was slowing down then the line would drop. It doesn't. And yes, losing 5+% of your speed would most definitely show up on the graph. How do you think I finally proved to Bort that chemistry wasn't turned off for scrims back in the day? Again, this dot loses over half of his energy in one play: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1979849&pbp_id=5063219 If energy effects were recalculated throughout the play then he would have shown substantial speed loss by the end of the return. Instead he's hitting the same max speed he did at the beginning.

5% of 25 scripts speed is 1.25, that replay shows his green line declining from about 23 to about 22. Taking only the straitaway portion he loses a pixel in the last 30 tics which is about 1/6th of the play. If we're ballparking 50% energy at 5% attribute penalty, we're talking about less than .25 drop in script speed over that portion of the play, which would be, and is, near the limits of the scripts resolution.

The OP, your replay, and my replays all show this decline in speed.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I imagine, from a game designer's viewpoint, that coding for GLB follows the typical adage of, "keep it simple". Trying to code for a decline in ability to coincide with the stamina loss takes much more effort than simply coding it as static throughout the play. In that manner, the assumption of any loss of any ability is set pre-snap by the energy level that player had at the time of the snap of the ball. Energy lost during the play would effect the next play. I suspect the visual of the energy bar depleting during the running of the play is just that... a visual only for effect, showing stamina lost during the play. Just my 2 centavos. :shrug:

Every tic, the rolls take into account Attributes, VAs, and SAs that can all change the value of each other from a tic to tic basis. The sim also tracks direction, speed, ball position and distance to other defenders in real-time. Why wouldn't it scan for current energy level as well? The energy/morale bars react to whats occurring on the field, so they're not a facade, they are derived from the sim, why would Bort go to all that trouble to light up a bar if the sim wasn't already tracking that stuff?

edit:
Nevermind. Not valid because different games might have had different attributes even if they were consecutive.

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so then that means that energy has almost no effect on speed since those lines are not dropping. Stuff like this looks perfectly flat to me: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2091427&pbp_id=5864514

edit:
Same here. Flat as a board: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2091427&pbp_id=5862341