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Forum > Suggestions > Seriously Bort NERF the Morale Spiral Late Game Boost Crap
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yello1
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Originally posted by Ken1
I partially agree with you. I think team performance impacts morale too much, if not from a realism standpoint then just from a playability standpoint.

I'm for morale spirals if they hit a player who is, himself, playing very poorly. What I'd change if I could would be how team failures hit the morale of everyone on the team as much as they do. I suggested that, though, and it wasn't popular.

Part of it is Confidence, though. Put a team on the field where everyone has 100 Confidence and you won't see morale spirals. Yeah, the team would suck because of losing stats from other areas, but there'd be no morale spirals. To some extent, though, they need to be possible, to keep Confidence relevant.

Where I really disagree with you is when you blame SAs and VAs. You can use those just as easily to help yourself (or the agents on the teams can, anyway).

My solution (not that anyone much wants it) would be to make team events affect morale a lot less, but individual effects affect it somewhat more. You wouldn't have a whole team effectively quit then. I think you'd take that over nothing, but I don't think you'd find many others who would agree even with my more modest proposal.


The VA and SA problem is this

First off not everyone would use them, or if they are must have then they suck because must have is not desirable. It means they are too over powered. And if they turn your game from a 12-10 one into a 60 to 12 one then its over powered.

Secondly it makes no sense. There is no "Im gonna so totally take off the first half and then be awesome" NFL strategy.

Confidence is relevant in the plays. Bort has it in block holding etc, as a measure of courage and determination/intimidation. I think thats fine.

And morale impacting play to some extent game long, thats fine. If your team is 1-5 then yeah it makes sense your guys may play at 98% effectiveness if they are not Confident individuals.

But to have it go from 100% to 50% in one game, in one half, heck it went from the 90s to 50s in less than one QUARTER, and have that have as huge an impact on performance as it does is freaking moronic.

And this is a team that has only five players with confidence under 50 and most of the team has confidence in the 60s and some 70s and 80s.

Morale is over done. Plain and simple.

And to the extent that the SAs and VAs that skew play from one quarter to the next are effecting that, then so are they.

Edited by yello1 on Apr 26, 2012 20:43:37
 
psi
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Originally posted by yello1
Are YOU Happy watching close games suddenly shoot out of control?


I am not happy with games that are supposed to be blowouts sitting at 17-12 at halftime.
 
yello1
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Originally posted by PenFifteen
I am not happy with games that are supposed to be blowouts sitting at 17-12 at halftime.


Nothing in that game should have been a blow out. Two closely matched teams. And for the most part my AI was matching nicely with his.
 
Ken1
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Originally posted by yello1
The VA and SA problem is this

First off not everyone would use them, or if they are must have then they suck because must have is not desirable. It means they are too over powered. And if they turn your game from a 12-10 one into a 60 to 12 one then its over powered.

Secondly it makes no sense. There is no "Im gonna so totally take off the first half and then be awesome" NFL strategy.


They've been nerfed when found to be overpowered. I don't see a lot of games where they seem to take over independent of morale spirals. Maybe I'm just not seeing those games.

I'd say that "Slow Starter," for example, can make sense. There certainly are real players that take a while to get going and play their best in the second half. Of course, it would be next to impossible to put a whole team of them together in real life and that could potentially be a problem in GLB.

But I just don't see it happening in actual games, and it doesn't seem to be a huge advantage. If they have a most of their players at -5% across the board for the whole first quarter and you can't put up a big lead on them, then the other team is probably much better. I only see the sort of thing you describe happen in close games when a team's morale spirals downward, which is the part I agree with you is a problem.
 
yello1
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Originally posted by Ken1
They've been nerfed when found to be overpowered. I don't see a lot of games where they seem to take over independent of morale spirals. Maybe I'm just not seeing those games.

I'd say that "Slow Starter," for example, can make sense. There certainly are real players that take a while to get going and play their best in the second half. Of course, it would be next to impossible to put a whole team of them together in real life and that could potentially be a problem in GLB.

But I just don't see it happening in actual games, and it doesn't seem to be a huge advantage. If they have a most of their players at -5% across the board for the whole first quarter and you can't put up a big lead on them, then the other team is probably much better. I only see the sort of thing you describe happen in close games when a team's morale spirals downward, which is the part I agree with you is a problem.


Well first off I put them in there as a part of the whole package. Bort knows how much they play a role individually or as a whole. No one else can. To the extent they are part of the problem they should be fixed. As for the notion that some of it makes sense, not really. Not to the point where its a desirable thing. But if its harmless thats okay.

BTW I meant to say I like your idea of making confidence mostly about the individual and his performance rather than a team nerf.
 
Golan
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Err, mostly these things are down to AI tbh, teams that are down late in the game keep going on any 4th down and that all just piles up until the game is over. If you don't want a moral spiral STOP INDUCING IT. You don't see an NFL team losing by 20 going for every 4th down either do you?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2023136 17-16 going into the 4th quarter and the BOOM, but at least 10 of those points coming off failed 4th downs.
 
yello1
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Originally posted by Golan
Err, mostly these things are down to AI tbh, teams that are down late in the game keep going on any 4th down and that all just piles up until the game is over. If you don't want a moral spiral STOP INDUCING IT. You don't see an NFL team losing by 20 going for every 4th down either do you?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2023136 17-16 going into the 4th quarter and the BOOM, but at least 10 of those points coming off failed 4th downs.


NFL teams do go for on 4th in the late game actually. In the game above we went for it twice late its true, but only twice and long after the spiral had made the team totally ineffectual.

I turned the game off in the third quarter because you could see the shift where plays that were being made in the first half were suddently and continually being missed, balls dropped, blocks not made, tackles missed. The problem is then, when the game is still salvageable and the morale spiral causes the dots to essentiallt give up with a half of football still to play.

Edited by yello1 on Apr 27, 2012 05:30:02
 
Greywolfmeb
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Originally posted by merenoise
Complaint thread.


 
gbororats
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speaking of morale loss, why do fair catches cause a PR to lose morale? Thats pretty retarded
 
gbororats
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oh yeah, and its more your AI than it is a morale death spiral.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1943049 Championship game USAPL S26... 68 points in the 4th Q being aggressive when losing. Fix your AI. Although i do hate morale based deathfalls, your AI can control this. If you try to come from behind too early you will lose, your morale will wind up in the dumper, and youll give up a lot of scores. If you punt on 4th down rather than go for it, you can soften the blow. Its all how you run your OAI.
 
yello1
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Originally posted by gbororats
speaking of morale loss, why do fair catches cause a PR to lose morale? Thats pretty retarded


Wow didnt even notice that, weird.
 
yello1
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Originally posted by gbororats
oh yeah, and its more your AI than it is a morale death spiral.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1943049 Championship game USAPL S26... 68 points in the 4th Q being aggressive when losing. Fix your AI. Although i do hate morale based deathfalls, your AI can control this. If you try to come from behind too early you will lose, your morale will wind up in the dumper, and youll give up a lot of scores. If you punt on 4th down rather than go for it, you can soften the blow. Its all how you run your OAI.


Again, we went for it on fourth twice, both quite late.

There is a point where you are down too far to punt.

And, again, the spiral was already happening a quarter before that point.

We held them tight then they had a sweep that broke loose, and another breakaway. Suddenly a close game that is still within two scores IIRC becomes a laugher as my guys walked off the field.

Whether or not I can do something to mitigate that, its still dumb and not reflective or the game GLB is trying to simulate.
 
stumanroo
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Originally posted by merenoise
Complaint thread.


 
JcWildcat
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Originally posted by stumanroo
Originally posted by merenoise

Complaint thread.




 
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