Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Dub J
welcome to 2 years ago

This, come up with an idea on exactly how to fix it or gtfo. This forum's called 'Suggestions' not 'Feelings'.

I am saying it makes no sense.

How can QB1 lead his conference in yards and TD passes in both normal numbers and in blowout adjusted stats and then be behind QB2 that has less yards and TD passes?

It makes no sense.

If we knew how the formula actually worked we could give intellectual suggestions on how to improve it.

Originally posted by Gunther-
If we knew how the formula actually worked we could give intellectual suggestions on how to improve it.

That is what I was thinking, but I doubt that will ever be made general knowledge for obvious reasons.

If the system is so bad, as you clearly stated, why would you want that system used as the backbone of your new one. Start from scratch, come up with a scoring system that can compare apples to oranges, and figure out what restrictions that you would want to put on said system. Then start a better thread about it.

Originally posted by Gunther-
I am saying it makes no sense.

How can QB1 lead his conference in yards and TD passes in both normal numbers and in blowout adjusted stats and then be behind QB2 that has less yards and TD passes?

It makes no sense.

The QBkiee Defense

Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
Can we combine this fix with a fix of the HOF as well?

+1

Originally posted by Gunther-
If we knew how the formula actually worked we could give intellectual suggestions on how to improve it.

This.

If Bort wants our input on how to fix it, he needs to give us the exact breakdown of how it works (or doesn't) so that we can put forth our suggested solution.

Until then this is the only forum we can raise our concerns about this issue, if you post in Bugs Catch will lock it before you can even hit the post button!

If you put it in the GLB forum it tends to go missing.

GLB either gives a shit or it doesn't, if it doesn't it needs to go on record as such.

Originally posted by Mat McBriar
Never seen this from Bort. That's a rough assumption.

It's coming up with a solution that works across the board that's the issue. It's not problem recognition.

he has said repeatedly that he thinks the formula is good. every season, there are a ton of complaints about winners where every one looking at it scratches their head. i've seen far too many ST MVPs that were not in the top 5 in any ST category, and too many that are top 3 in every category but not even in the top 5 for the MVP.. even w/o knowing the full formula, its obvious that stats from blowout games still are weighed too heavily as are total yards (instead of averages), and the totally asinine % of total points.

if you remove blowouts completely from the equation (unless the player involved was the reason for the blowout), and remove the % of team points, those 2 alone would greatly improve the formula.

+1

Okay, before turning to the % contribution lets look at the two QBs:

Dryst - 5,058.39 yds passing, 38.91 TDs, 5 INTs, -160.41 yds rushing, 0 fumbles lost.
Mike - 5,483.24 yds passing, 43.16 TDs, 8 INTs, -326.23 yds rushing, 3 fumbles lost.

Mike has 424.85 more passing yards, 4.25 more TDs, 3 more INTs, 165.82 fewer rushing yards, and 3 more fumbles lost.
Mike has 259.03 more yards in total, but he has given the ball away 6 more times while only scoring 4.25 more TDs.

If you go by these totals alone, as a % it is quite possible that Bort would award the MVP to Dryst, because he was the more efficient.

But, we know that the MVP formula also includes a % of total contribution, but we don't know exactly what that means. We cannot see the blowout adjusted team values without having to add up the blowout adjusted indiviual stats, so I'll show raw team totals.

Dryst's team has:
5,502 passing yards, 2178.5 rushing yards, and 2989 Special Team yards or 10,669.5 total yards.
50 passing TDs, 38 rushing TDs, and 6 ST TDs or 94 total TDs.
5 INTs and 21 Fumbles.
Additionally their kicker has scored 213 points.

Mike's team has:
6664.5 passing yards, 1471.5 rushing yards, 5806 Special Teams yards or 13,942 total yards.
73 passing TDs, 42 rushing TDs, and 37 ST TDs or 152 total TDs.
12 INTs and 18 Fumbles
Additionally their kicker has scored 268 points.

As you can see, while Mike's scoring is higher compared to Dryst's scoring, IF the % of contribution is a factor, Dryst has a much higher % of contribution to the team's and a much lower % of turnovers than Mike.

So... basically I wouldn't go crying bug, because it isn't bugged.

If you have a suggestion as to how to view this data in a way that should give Mike the MVP, you should put forth a formula or make SOME sort of observation.

I mean, this isn't my first time questioning the MVP formula, I specifically don't like that % of contribution AND blowout adjust scores are used, because it means that many players that performed far better compared to others will never win the MVP, or that those who contributed significantly to a losing team will be rewarded for the team continuing to overuse one or two players.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Okay, before turning to the % contribution lets look at the two QBs:

Dryst - 5,058.39 yds passing, 38.91 TDs, 5 INTs, -160.41 yds rushing, 0 fumbles lost.
Mike - 5,483.24 yds passing, 43.16 TDs, 8 INTs, -326.23 yds rushing, 3 fumbles lost.

Mike has 424.85 more passing yards, 4.25 more TDs, 3 more INTs, 165.82 fewer rushing yards, and 3 more fumbles lost.
Mike has 259.03 more yards in total, but he has given the ball away 6 more times while only scoring 4.25 more TDs.

If you go by these totals alone, as a % it is quite possible that Bort would award the MVP to Dryst, because he was the more efficient.

But, we know that the MVP formula also includes a % of total contribution, but we don't know exactly what that means. We cannot see the blowout adjusted team values without having to add up the blowout adjusted indiviual stats, so I'll show raw team totals.

Dryst's team has:
5,502 passing yards, 2178.5 rushing yards, and 2989 Special Team yards or 10,669.5 total yards.
50 passing TDs, 38 rushing TDs, and 6 ST TDs or 94 total TDs.
5 INTs and 21 Fumbles.
Additionally their kicker has scored 213 points.

Mike's team has:
6664.5 passing yards, 1471.5 rushing yards, 5806 Special Teams yards or 13,942 total yards.
73 passing TDs, 42 rushing TDs, and 37 ST TDs or 152 total TDs.
12 INTs and 18 Fumbles
Additionally their kicker has scored 268 points.

As you can see, while Mike's scoring is higher compared to Dryst's scoring, IF the % of contribution is a factor, Dryst has a much higher % of contribution to the team's and a much lower % of turnovers than Mike.

So... basically I wouldn't go crying bug, because it isn't bugged.

If you have a suggestion as to how to view this data in a way that should give Mike the MVP, you should put forth a formula or make SOME sort of observation.

I mean, this isn't my first time questioning the MVP formula, I specifically don't like that % of contribution AND blowout adjust scores are used, because it means that many players that performed far better compared to others will never win the MVP, or that those who contributed significantly to a losing team will be rewarded for the team continuing to overuse one or two players.



I've never seen it laid out so clearly. Great write-up.....now shutup you whiners!!

In almost every situation, the right MVP is chosen...but the formula is obviously far from perfect. The issue lies, as Mat McBriar said, in that if you were to change it, you'd risk skewing the currently functioning results as well which are the clear majority. You're going to have a few outliers in any universal formula.

Voting wouldn't work, either, since people could easily be partial.

It's not a problem that they don't know about; it's a problem that if it were fixed in certain situations, it would probably break in others.

...and yeah, this happens every season. Don't worry, though, your guy may still get the bonus MVP equipment. Each time one of my guys has finished first in the voting, they haven't gotten it...and each time they get it, they're 2nd or 3rd.

from the bugs forum, it appears that player level is a huge factor. i have an open bug where the player dropped from 2nd to 392nd (yes, you read that right) when he boosted from 69 to 72. i've suspected this before but never had a concrete example until now.

i can see offensive and defensive being difficult to determine as you are comparing rushing yards to passing yards in many cases. but ST should be straight forward. mvp should be determined on the field and not by level, or % of contribution crap.