Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Otega

So wrong on so many levels.

If you build bad dots, you are going to suck, period, end of story.

This isn't an NFL sim, this is a football math equation.

It's ridiculous to think that if you build a horrible team, you should still be able to hang with my amazing team. WTF?


What you are missing here is the correct definition of "Hang".

I do not expect to be a hairs breadth away from winning if my builds all suck and the OpFor's don't. That sort of "hang" no, that you have to build your dots well for.

I just do not expect to be 255 points out and have my guys putting the ball on the carpet like they were bowling, etc etc. Hanging within the parameters of a realistic pro football game. YES that that I expect.

That I demand.

Originally posted by beenlurken
It has nothing to do with "the sim" ... hopefully you can see now that it has everything to do with league structure. The right league structure will ensure that most games will be competitive (30 points or less as you define it).

To a certain extent I can agree with that. It would make matters better, sure. But not good enough.

And really saying you have to cordon off the microbusses into their own league is also a crutch for a broken simulation.

Ideally you just don't let a 3 stroke putt putt engine be a possibility in your build system.

Originally posted by yello1
Originally posted by MC_Hammer

"Goal Line Blitz is not affiliated with the NFL or any other professional football league"

It also says it is an American Pro (we get paid) Football Simulation

Is there some other American Pro Football league I am unaware of???????

This horsesht that Bort et al make about it not being the NFL is just that, mealy mouthed excuse making horsecrap.

No offense to those who repeat it. But its bunk and we all know it.

Thats what the game is supposed to be simming.

To the extent its not, thats a bad sim. Now bad simming can be excused when its helpful to playability. But 200-3 scores or other lopsided nonsense is not that. It makes people quit the game. Had a guy sell his new team today and I suspect it was the 3-200 loss we had in a scrim yesterday, for instance. People do not pay to play to be embarrassed. Well I do, but not everyone is such a glutton for punishment.

Pretty sure what Hammer is getting at is that it is BASED on American pro football (and very loosely at that).
I have seen quotes from Bort before that say he never has intended for GLB to emulate the NFL, nor does he want to. He has also stated that he wishes GLB to be an offense oriented game (not surprising considering all the defensive nerfs that have been rolled out over the years).

Originally posted by jimmiejoe

Pretty sure what Hammer is getting at is that it is BASED on American pro football (and very loosely at that).

Exactly what I was getting at.

Originally posted by MC_Hammer
Originally posted by jimmiejoe


Pretty sure what Hammer is getting at is that it is BASED on American pro football (and very loosely at that).

Exactly what I was getting at.

Edit: if it were exactly (or close enough) like the NFL, then we could have zone blitzes, zone blocking schemes, have the ability to rotate in specific players based on how we want a defense run (custom slots for every position would be a start, particularly DEs.... which Bort has said is NGTH), etc.

Originally posted by jimmiejoe
Originally posted by yello1

Originally posted by MC_Hammer


"Goal Line Blitz is not affiliated with the NFL or any other professional football league"

It also says it is an American Pro (we get paid) Football Simulation

Is there some other American Pro Football league I am unaware of???????

This horsesht that Bort et al make about it not being the NFL is just that, mealy mouthed excuse making horsecrap.

No offense to those who repeat it. But its bunk and we all know it.

Thats what the game is supposed to be simming.

To the extent its not, thats a bad sim. Now bad simming can be excused when its helpful to playability. But 200-3 scores or other lopsided nonsense is not that. It makes people quit the game. Had a guy sell his new team today and I suspect it was the 3-200 loss we had in a scrim yesterday, for instance. People do not pay to play to be embarrassed. Well I do, but not everyone is such a glutton for punishment.

Pretty sure what Hammer is getting at is that it is BASED on American pro football (and very loosely at that).
I have seen quotes from Bort before that say he never has intended for GLB to emulate the NFL, nor does he want to. He has also stated that he wishes GLB to be an offense oriented game (not surprising considering all the defensive nerfs that have been rolled out over the years).

And to that I say drivel (the Bort bit).

The NFL is where the money is, where the draw is, where the interest is. If this was about anything else, it wouldn't have any customers. To say he wasnt trying to simulate NFL play sounds alot like excuse making for not simming it very well. I think it has to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes maybe he didn't intend to make an exact replica (for which he might get sued) but I think he wanted it close than this.

And truth is it doesnt matter what Bort intended. The players expectations are what they are regardless, and thats for an NFL style game.

As far as favoring the offense, thats all well and good. But thats not the same thing as favoring 100 point games, or too high fumble rates etc.

Originally posted by MC_Hammer
Originally posted by MC_Hammer

Originally posted by jimmiejoe



Pretty sure what Hammer is getting at is that it is BASED on American pro football (and very loosely at that).

Exactly what I was getting at.

Edit: if it were exactly (or close enough) like the NFL, then we could have zone blitzes, zone blocking schemes, have the ability to rotate in specific players based on how we want a defense run (custom slots for every position would be a start, particularly DEs.... which Bort has said is NGTH), etc.

That may be true but there you are getting into the nuts and bolts. And while I pish posh the notion that the game is trying to be anything other than an NFL sim, I do not think it has to be that close of a sim in the details. It would be nice, but game balance et cetera also have to be considered and it might be that Bort shies away from some of that because he thinks it would imbalance the game. If so, I do not have a huge problem with that. The closer to the "real" game the better, but you can only expect so much in an MMO like this.

My problem is more in the macro of the sim, the overall feel. A 100-3 game is not feeling like the NFL to me. Its not feeling like the NFL to anyone. Same same other silly high stats like 4 KR TDs in a game etc. Those break the simulation completely AND there is zero reason for them to be there. It would be easy to fix to prevent it, and its hurting gameplay and the game as well. So there is just no reason for it to be like that other than Bort making a mistake in not fixing it.

Originally posted by yello1
The closer to the "real" game the better, but you can only expect so much in an MMO like this.

Imo (and the opinion of LOTS of others), being able to substitute players on defense would be closer to the "real" game.
I mean why the hell would you want your speed DEs in the game on obvious rushing downs if using a 4 man front? Or even a 3 man front for that matter.

Originally posted by yello1
Same same other silly high stats like 4 KR TDs in a game etc. Those break the simulation completely AND there is zero reason for them to be there.

4 words here....... Dante Hall, Devin Hester


Let's just agree to disagree, as we obviously have different expectations on how the sim "should" be.

Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
The problem with the league structure theory is that this isn't real life like the NFL where the difference between builds for 95% of each team are pretty darn even. Every season we have a HUGE number of turnover so there's no way to sort the teams BEFORE THE TEAMS ARE EVEN FILLED with the dots they'll be using that season.

I dont think you understand what it means to restructure the league... it doesnt mean a better method of "sorting" the teams within the current leagues... it means completely changing the leagues. For example, one version of the hemisphere league idea would contract Nat Pro into 4 leagues... that is removing half (128) of the teams from the Pro level and forcing them down into Reg Pro. Would the initial sort be perfect? Absolutely not, but it would be a lot more difficult to stay at the Pro level and it would quickly sort itself out, especially if they also increase the amount of teams that demote out of Nat Pro to Regional Pro (even 2 teams/per conf to 4 teams would be a huge deal). That is just one example of a fairly simple change that would make this game a lot more competitive for a lot of teams. Some people, like yello1, selfishly resist this because they feel that since they have an end-game team they deserve to play at the Nat Pro level... instead they would prefer the better teams to be handicapped down to their level. Considering you have asked to be placed at a level more appropriate for your teams skill level, I have to assume you can see how ridiculous it is for people to resist creating a league structure that would allow Oberon to play in a lot more competitive environment while you guys figure some more things out and gain ground on the better teams in the game.

Also, regarding your comments on differences in dot quality being a big part of parity.. I want to point you toward All Good Things. Look at what they have done the past few seasons with a team almost entirely composed of CPU dots (until this season). I think you guys grossly under value just how much game planning is responsible for the lack of parity (at least in terms of avoiding ridiculous scores). Yet another reason why league structure needs to be changed at the Nat Pro level.


Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
One thing is for sure, degrading dedicated guys like yello and myself is not the way to go. That's what's killing this game. I know if I quit GMing Oberon, it disappears and so will a ton of agents from GLB. Yello invests a TON of money into this game on his own dots and multiple teams. Ask yourself, does it help you or hurt you to rip on folks who support the same game you play? Bc unless you guys are planning on financially picking up the slack for guys as they bail, you'll be playing with yourselves in a more watered down scenario than you have now.

I would like for you to show me where I have "ripped on" you...

Yes, I rip on yello all the time, but that is only because he is a whiny little troll that would rather cry in the suggestions forum than listen to people that are trying to help him. He used to be the underdog that everyone enjoyed (including myself) and rooted for... hell, even admired for his persistence to hang in there and battle... but with his ridiculous babble, constant crying/excuses, and self admiration has made him a laughing stock. Please dont allow yourself to become like him...

Originally posted by MC_Hammer
4 words here....... Dante Hall, Devin Hester


Let's just agree to disagree, as we obviously have different expectations on how the sim "should" be.

Now Hammer, you know I respect your opinion, but Dante Hall, Devin Hester isn't nearly the same. They had one game in their careers each with multiple TDs that were "video game like", but NEVER did Hester or Hall have 15-20 TDs in a single game against even the worst team they played their "career years".

The reason this won't get as close to the NFL as some would like isn't bc they don't want it to, it's bc they couldn't code it to. If we can't even get the competition lined up in a single conference other than WL to be within 30 points of each other now, then how much worse would it be for a casual gamer against a guy where GLB is their "job" and they make their schemes even more sophisticated.

The real problem is there's no real way to judge the quality of a dot by the numbers. EL doesn't work nor does APVs. However, that's as close as we can get. With that being said, no way in the world should there be teams with 1250+ playing against teams 1150 and lower. I don't care how good your builds and AI are. What should happen is instead of every Nat pro league having 2-4 of these RINGERS with the rest having ZERO shot, they should wait until every team has recruited 50+ dots and then sort the teams into leagues based on APV or if there's a "perfect build", measure how far off each dot is from that point to "grade" out a squad and then put them in a league full of teams with like grades.

Right now there's absolutely NOTHING to realistically set the stage for competitive game play.

I think the easiest fit is to do promotions/demotions/moves AFTER an "offseason". Look across the Nat Pro leagues. If you were going to line these teams up now, you could make every league pretty friggin competitive. We've seen it in our scrimmages. Against teams with APVs close to ours, every game is fun to watch and close. Against teams where the APVs are drastically apart, HUGE BLOWOUT!

So simple fix. Move sorting until after "offseason". Rank teams by APV and start drawing out the conferences. Problem solved.

Originally posted by beenlurken
I would like for you to show me where I have "ripped on" you...

Yes, I rip on yello all the time, but that is only because he is a whiny little troll that would rather cry in the suggestions forum than listen to people that are trying to help him. He used to be the underdog that everyone enjoyed (including myself) and rooted for... hell, even admired for his persistence to hang in there and battle... but with his ridiculous babble, constant crying/excuses, and self admiration has made him a laughing stock. Please dont allow yourself to become like him...



I don't really care where Oberon plays really. We've been a team since season 4 and if you look at our history, we've had seasons where we didn't win a single game to going 22-1. I'm not going to lie, my agents and I had a lot more fun going 22-1 in AAA than we did going a game or two below .500 here in OPL the last few seasons. It's easy for me not to "rail" on this bc I only grow 2-3 dots at a time so my investment in this game is pretty small really in contrast to someone like Yello who is putting in a TON of $$$, more than almost anyone here in OPL by the time you look at all his dots and teams he invests in every season for season after season. Guys like him are what props this whole thing up so guys like me who only pay for 2-3 dots can play.

Here's the thing. These BLOWOUT scores and frequent build strategies are killing investment. How many GREAT agents do you know who aren't here anymore or are playing off of recycled flex with no intent to buy more? How many of you who are in this same thread enjoy 200-3 games? Seriously, this is like me getting a few of my pro baseball buddies together to play my son's 7 year old coach pitch team, beating the hell out of them game after game, season after season and then expecting them to keep paying to play us in a crap economy. Economically long term it's not viable. You may be able to outbuild/out AI folks 200-3, but is that really why you come here? Is that fun? I'd rather make it to where you had to be an expert to even win, not win big.

Originally posted by yello1
And really saying you have to cordon off the microbusses into their own league is also a crutch for a broken simulation.

More excuses... keep blaming the sim for your inadequacies.

Fact remains that the game cant support the size of Nat Pro. Just in alpha this season... 5 teams that are two seasons away from plateau were promoted up (these teams have no business being at the Nat Pro level this season)... in addition to that there are 3 teams who have at least a large portion of the roster CPU. The sad thing is that there is not anything better in Regional Pro to replace them with. If the league structure was as it should be then those teams would have no shot at making Nat Pro with young rosters... they are much better served playing another season in Reg Pro along with some of the bottom of the barrel plateaued struggling Nat Pro teams. It would make for more Reg Pro elite leagues but that is a good thing. I am sorry you cant see how much of a joke it is that there is only one regional pro elite league that is supposed to feed the 8 Nat Pro leagues.... and that GLB dips into competitive and regular regional pro when promoting teams up to Nat pro.

Originally posted by beenlurken
Originally posted by yello1

And really saying you have to cordon off the microbusses into their own league is also a crutch for a broken simulation.

More excuses... keep blaming the sim for your inadequacies.

Fact remains that the game cant support the size of Nat Pro. Just in alpha this season... 5 teams that are two seasons away from plateau were promoted up (these teams have no business being at the Nat Pro level this season)... in addition to that there are 3 teams who have at least a large portion of the roster CPU. The sad thing is that there is not anything better in Regional Pro to replace them with. If the league structure was as it should be then those teams would have no shot at making Nat Pro with young rosters... they are much better served playing another season in Reg Pro along with some of the bottom of the barrel plateaued struggling Nat Pro teams. It would make for more Reg Pro elite leagues but that is a good thing. I am sorry you cant see how much of a joke it is that there is only one regional pro elite league that is supposed to feed the 8 Nat Pro leagues.... and that GLB dips into competitive and regular regional pro when promoting teams up to Nat pro.


Tbh the sad thing is that some of those teams 2 seasons away from plateau will out play some of the teams thathave been here for a while

Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
So simple fix. Move sorting until after "offseason". Rank teams by APV and start drawing out the conferences. Problem solved.

You just dont understand at all...

If they sorted now... who do they replace the teams that dont belong in Nat Pro with from Reg Pro?


Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
Now Hammer, you know I respect your opinion, but Dante Hall, Devin Hester isn't nearly the same. They had one game in their careers each with multiple TDs that were "video game like", but NEVER did Hester or Hall have 15-20 TDs in a single game against even the worst team they played their "career years".

The worse ST team strategy in Nat Pro is 1000x worse than the worse ST's in the NFL. If a NFL team threw some of the crap out there on ST's like I see playing GLB you would see a Hall and Hester with a lot more multiple TD games.

Again, it is not all about dot quality... so much of it is about game planning. Just look at yello's ST's over the past couple of seasons... he has the dots to avoid his problems (as seen last season when he finally listened to some advice and fixed some things) but is still lacking some strategy.

Originally posted by dss02
Originally posted by beenlurken

Originally posted by yello1


And really saying you have to cordon off the microbusses into their own league is also a crutch for a broken simulation.

More excuses... keep blaming the sim for your inadequacies.

Fact remains that the game cant support the size of Nat Pro. Just in alpha this season... 5 teams that are two seasons away from plateau were promoted up (these teams have no business being at the Nat Pro level this season)... in addition to that there are 3 teams who have at least a large portion of the roster CPU. The sad thing is that there is not anything better in Regional Pro to replace them with. If the league structure was as it should be then those teams would have no shot at making Nat Pro with young rosters... they are much better served playing another season in Reg Pro along with some of the bottom of the barrel plateaued struggling Nat Pro teams. It would make for more Reg Pro elite leagues but that is a good thing. I am sorry you cant see how much of a joke it is that there is only one regional pro elite league that is supposed to feed the 8 Nat Pro leagues.... and that GLB dips into competitive and regular regional pro when promoting teams up to Nat pro.


Tbh the sad thing is that some of those teams 2 seasons away from plateau will out play some of the teams thathave been here for a while

Agreed