Warrior General Games

Originally posted by regoob2
What were his other attributes and how long ago was he in the WL? That's not really what I consider a WL caliber build.

its not that far off from what a lot of people do on their DEs, though.

Originally posted by regoob2
What were his other attributes and how long ago was he in the WL? That's not really what I consider a WL caliber build.

WL has definitely passed him by, but that's to be expected for a first dot who will start decline at the end of this season.

The other attributes are largely irrelevant to the issue of being pancaked. I suppose morale was an issue, but pancake issues happened before his morale became terrible - they just persisted after.

And Rage, I don't doubt that a 140 speed guy could wreak havoc, but I'd like to see an example of one in run support. I don't think there are any dots out there with the build you're talking about, though I could be wrong.

The high speed high first step build was something I liked a lot after watching last season. But after looking at the new DPC and seeing that you can't position the DEs nearly as wide as you were able to before, I'm afraid that such a build isn't going to be nearly as effective. I'll probably still try to build one but I'm not expecting anything good from the experiment.

Originally posted by risico
WL has definitely passed him by, but that's to be expected for a first dot who will start decline at the end of this season.

The other attributes are largely irrelevant to the issue of being pancaked. I suppose morale was an issue, but pancake issues happened before his morale became terrible - they just persisted after.

And Rage, I don't doubt that a 140 speed guy could wreak havoc, but I'd like to see an example of one in run support. I don't think there are any dots out there with the build you're talking about, though I could be wrong.

The high speed high first step build was something I liked a lot after watching last season. But after looking at the new DPC and seeing that you can't position the DEs nearly as wide as you were able to before, I'm afraid that such a build isn't going to be nearly as effective. I'll probably still try to build one but I'm not expecting anything good from the experiment.

You dont think vis/sta/con/SAs factor into being pancaked?

Originally posted by regoob2
You dont think vis/sta/con/SAs factor into being pancaked?

stamina and SA's are probably the most important in that category. You could argue vision will help you get in position better, but that isn't always necessarily true.

Originally posted by risico


The high speed high first step build was something I liked a lot after watching last season. But after looking at the new DPC and seeing that you can't position the DEs nearly as wide as you were able to before, I'm afraid that such a build isn't going to be nearly as effective. I'll probably still try to build one but I'm not expecting anything good from the experiment.



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Originally posted by Homage
stamina and SA's are probably the most important in that category. You could argue vision will help you get in position better, but that isn't always necessarily true.

vision and JTS do help with the jump off the ball. The real key is in speed/FS, but vision and JTS are also important on the build. It's all about momentum and position at first contact.

And I guarantee by the time the season is over, I'll find ways to keep OL from blocking him on some pass plays and force the TE or a back to pick him up. Even if it means running a bunch of GL with a weak DL shift.

Originally posted by regoob2
You dont think vis/sta/con/SAs factor into being pancaked?

I already said morale was an issue. Stamina can factor into it but his energy was not an issue last season. Vision helps with snap jumps and the like, but once you're engaged with a blocker I don't think it does anything to help with preventing pancakes.

Rage, any other examples or is Ark's the only guy out there doing this? His success in it is interesting.

Though looking through the box scores, he has been pancaked more often than other DEs on his team.

Originally posted by risico
I already said morale was an issue. Stamina can factor into it but his energy was not an issue last season. Vision helps with snap jumps and the like, but once you're engaged with a blocker I don't think it does anything to help with preventing pancakes.

Rage, any other examples or is Ark's the only guy out there doing this? His success in it is interesting.

Though looking through the box scores, he has been pancaked more often than other DEs on his team.

Most of our other DEs have 130-135 strength. Only 1 of the other 4 isn't strength based, and we try to put him on ST as much as possible and limit his play on defense because the build isn't finished and won't be as good when it is.

Like I said, he gets pancaked about 1 out of every 10 plays against the better teams. Typically it is almost a direct correlation. If he is around 30 plays he is pancaked 3 times. If he is in 50 plays he is pancaked about 5 times.

I have a Strength DE that took strength to 81 with all equipment in it and has almost 77 agility and i still get pancaked 1/7 plays by terrible lineman. I've been pancaked more in the last couple games than all of last year.

Originally posted by Flashdance
I have a Strength DE that took strength to 81 with all equipment in it and has almost 77 agility and i still get pancaked 1/7 plays by terrible lineman. I've been pancaked more in the last couple games than all of last year.

I'm guessing you haven't added an SAs yet, and you likely don't have very high speed or vision.

He's level 31, so no. ~50 speed and ~31 vision. He had low speed and vision last year. Whats so different this year?

Angle of engagement seems to have a lot to do with pancakes. If your DE can get a jump and cut off the OT he usually stays upright.

Thing is, if you're building a strength DE you're likely matching OTs. They're building to hold blocks and you're still rounding out your build to break blocks. Defenders who can't move generally suck. Linemen who can't move - it's not as big a deal at the lower levels.

Originally posted by Flashdance
He's level 31, so no. ~50 speed and ~31 vision. He had low speed and vision last year. Whats so different this year?

I just looked at your game logs and I didn't see where he was pancaked a single time. He has been reverse pancaking OL, but I looked at like 4 games where he didn't get pancaked at all.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by Flashdance

He's level 31, so no. ~50 speed and ~31 vision. He had low speed and vision last year. Whats so different this year?

I just looked at your game logs and I didn't see where he was pancaked a single time. He has been reverse pancaking OL, but I looked at like 4 games where he didn't get pancaked at all.

I guess i didn't notice they added revcake to the stats. I just looked at the right side of the stat sheet and thought it was a pancake. I feel a lot better now. I was about to start feeling sorry for the other DEs in the league. I haven't found many if at all with a higher sp value than my guy.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
140 speed
100 agility
85 strength
65 vision
60 stamina
60 tackling
45 confidence
10+ first step
7+ change direction

How would switching SPD and AGI work Rage?