i would think you'd want to take strength to 40 or so even on that build. drop a point or two in catching and you could do that pretty easily, though.
bhall43
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Originally posted by Worker 3
strength does more than that, bhall. bort has said that it also acts as a "fight for the ball" type modifier for when both the WR and CB are able to interact with the ball at the same time. if you have higher strength than the CB, it will be easier to win catch rolls when the CB is right on top of you... which, for a possession WR will be most catches.
lol...which is why break tackle WR's win so many rolls right? Strength is a tiny bit of the equation. That is fairly easy to see when watching several different types of WR's play dotball. The hope is that the CB isn't right on top of you anyways. Which is the reason I built it that way and not the dumb way.
strength does more than that, bhall. bort has said that it also acts as a "fight for the ball" type modifier for when both the WR and CB are able to interact with the ball at the same time. if you have higher strength than the CB, it will be easier to win catch rolls when the CB is right on top of you... which, for a possession WR will be most catches.
lol...which is why break tackle WR's win so many rolls right? Strength is a tiny bit of the equation. That is fairly easy to see when watching several different types of WR's play dotball. The hope is that the CB isn't right on top of you anyways. Which is the reason I built it that way and not the dumb way.
bhall43
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Originally posted by whatje
i would think you'd want to take strength to 40 or so even on that build. drop a point or two in catching and you could do that pretty easily, though.
really no reason to. Might help some blocking i guess.
i would think you'd want to take strength to 40 or so even on that build. drop a point or two in catching and you could do that pretty easily, though.
really no reason to. Might help some blocking i guess.
Worker 3
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Originally posted by bhall43
lol...which is why break tackle WR's win so many rolls right? Strength is a tiny bit of the equation. That is fairly easy to see when watching several different types of WR's play dotball. The hope is that the CB isn't right on top of you anyways. Which is the reason I built it that way and not the dumb way.
i love you too bhall... no reason to get your panties in a bunch and hurl a petty insult.
and i would venture to say the reason that most break tackle WRs dont win so many catch rolls is because their catch roll isnt good to begin with. strength isnt going to be the end all be all for the catch roll, but it does help... but if your catch roll is crap, that bit that strength does help you, isnt going to help you enough.
do you need it? i guess not, but it would seem like a worthwhile and efficient investment to me. unless youre doubting that it does what im saying, in which case you need to go back and read some FAQ threads.
and 147 speed isnt really going to create much separation. CBs are still going to be right on top of you more times than not.
lol...which is why break tackle WR's win so many rolls right? Strength is a tiny bit of the equation. That is fairly easy to see when watching several different types of WR's play dotball. The hope is that the CB isn't right on top of you anyways. Which is the reason I built it that way and not the dumb way.
i love you too bhall... no reason to get your panties in a bunch and hurl a petty insult.
and i would venture to say the reason that most break tackle WRs dont win so many catch rolls is because their catch roll isnt good to begin with. strength isnt going to be the end all be all for the catch roll, but it does help... but if your catch roll is crap, that bit that strength does help you, isnt going to help you enough.
do you need it? i guess not, but it would seem like a worthwhile and efficient investment to me. unless youre doubting that it does what im saying, in which case you need to go back and read some FAQ threads.
and 147 speed isnt really going to create much separation. CBs are still going to be right on top of you more times than not.
Edited by Worker 3 on Jan 6, 2011 10:58:42
Edited by Worker 3 on Jan 6, 2011 10:57:13
bhall43
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Originally posted by Worker 3
i love you too bhall... no reason to get your panties in a bunch and hurl a petty insult.
and i would venture to say the reason that most break tackle WRs dont win so many catch rolls is because their catch roll isnt good to begin with. strength isnt going to be the end all be all for the catch roll, but it does help... but if your catch roll is crap, that bit that strength does help you, isnt going to help you enough.
do you need it? i guess not, but it would seem like a worthwhile and efficient investment to me. unless youre doubting that it does what im saying, in which case you need to go back and read some FAQ threads.
and 147 speed isnt really going to create much separation. CBs are still going to be right on top of you more times than not.
what i meant by the dumb way was using the top tree like its some sacred possession build maker to help WR's catch balls in traffic. Wasn't a jab at you at all.
The separation isn't just coming from the speed. It is coming from everything in that build.
and im not doubting what you are saying. I just think you put far too much stock in what it does.
i love you too bhall... no reason to get your panties in a bunch and hurl a petty insult.
and i would venture to say the reason that most break tackle WRs dont win so many catch rolls is because their catch roll isnt good to begin with. strength isnt going to be the end all be all for the catch roll, but it does help... but if your catch roll is crap, that bit that strength does help you, isnt going to help you enough.
do you need it? i guess not, but it would seem like a worthwhile and efficient investment to me. unless youre doubting that it does what im saying, in which case you need to go back and read some FAQ threads.
and 147 speed isnt really going to create much separation. CBs are still going to be right on top of you more times than not.
what i meant by the dumb way was using the top tree like its some sacred possession build maker to help WR's catch balls in traffic. Wasn't a jab at you at all.
The separation isn't just coming from the speed. It is coming from everything in that build.
and im not doubting what you are saying. I just think you put far too much stock in what it does.
whatje
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Originally posted by bhall43
really no reason to. Might help some blocking i guess.
between that and not constantly getting rev-caked its probably worth it even if it doesn't help at all with the catch-roll. i guess you could potentially get away without it.
tend to agree that the top tree for WRs sucks, even possession WRs -- although sticky hands isn't bad i guess.
really no reason to. Might help some blocking i guess.
between that and not constantly getting rev-caked its probably worth it even if it doesn't help at all with the catch-roll. i guess you could potentially get away without it.
tend to agree that the top tree for WRs sucks, even possession WRs -- although sticky hands isn't bad i guess.
Worker 3
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Originally posted by bhall43
what i meant by the dumb way was using the top tree like its some sacred possession build maker to help WR's catch balls in traffic. Wasn't a jab at you at all.
The separation isn't just coming from the speed. It is coming from everything in that build.
and im not doubting what you are saying. I just think you put far too much stock in what it does.
ha fair enough. i guess thats one of the problems with teh internetz.. you can really catch inflection and emphasis... unless you type in caps, but then you look like youre 12.
and i agree with you, i cant say im a huge fan of the possession tree either. i mean, i like RR and SH, but the rest are iffy. the only reason i took JC on the build i provided is because there arent going to be too many chances for you to catch a ball cleanly (ie with no interaction with a defensive dot), and many of those will be jump balls. anything to help ensure that the ball is caught is money in that situation. if JC does what it says it does, it should help you come down with a few more of those passes. and again thats my same reasoning with strength. they may not help a ton, but even a little bit can help, and the investment, i would say, is perhaps more efficient than most other potential investments in late build.
i guess if you think the jumping and the catching are good enough you can forgo both of those things though... although if anything i would probably prefer to lose JC since strength does more than just help you win catch rolls. it will (marginally) increase your brk tkl score, and also help you in run blocking (as you mentioned earlier).
and question: if you arent looking to create separation via speed, what would you be hoping would create separation with that build? agility and catch fake?
what i meant by the dumb way was using the top tree like its some sacred possession build maker to help WR's catch balls in traffic. Wasn't a jab at you at all.
The separation isn't just coming from the speed. It is coming from everything in that build.
and im not doubting what you are saying. I just think you put far too much stock in what it does.
ha fair enough. i guess thats one of the problems with teh internetz.. you can really catch inflection and emphasis... unless you type in caps, but then you look like youre 12.
and i agree with you, i cant say im a huge fan of the possession tree either. i mean, i like RR and SH, but the rest are iffy. the only reason i took JC on the build i provided is because there arent going to be too many chances for you to catch a ball cleanly (ie with no interaction with a defensive dot), and many of those will be jump balls. anything to help ensure that the ball is caught is money in that situation. if JC does what it says it does, it should help you come down with a few more of those passes. and again thats my same reasoning with strength. they may not help a ton, but even a little bit can help, and the investment, i would say, is perhaps more efficient than most other potential investments in late build.
i guess if you think the jumping and the catching are good enough you can forgo both of those things though... although if anything i would probably prefer to lose JC since strength does more than just help you win catch rolls. it will (marginally) increase your brk tkl score, and also help you in run blocking (as you mentioned earlier).
and question: if you arent looking to create separation via speed, what would you be hoping would create separation with that build? agility and catch fake?
MileHighShoes
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Maybe he plans on running on creative now that it's slightly effective.
He does have 8 in quick cut and low 80's agility.
He does have 8 in quick cut and low 80's agility.
bhall43
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First Step, Quick Cut, and Catch Fake should give me all the separation I need with my catch roll. I would like a little higher agility tho...that is why i said I might switch over 7 of the equip to agility or possibly just work agility itself higher and speed not as high in the actual build if thats still feasible with where i am at.
monsterkill
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wait, catch fake is good? honest question, because last time i remember considering catch fake, it rarely fired and barely made the CB stutter
Worker 3
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Originally posted by monsterkill
wait, catch fake is good? honest question, because last time i remember considering catch fake, it rarely fired and barely made the CB stutter
same, but im guessing he is hoping that catch finally gets to re-balancing the SAs before his dot reaches maturity.
im also not sold that 80 agility and 8 quick cut will be able to create separation. i guess i havent watch enough high level game tape to see how good creative is now, but with CB builds looking how they will, i would still be on the fence about it. the jumping in the build would also worry me since i know many good CB builders who are looking at about 81 jumping.
wait, catch fake is good? honest question, because last time i remember considering catch fake, it rarely fired and barely made the CB stutter
same, but im guessing he is hoping that catch finally gets to re-balancing the SAs before his dot reaches maturity.
im also not sold that 80 agility and 8 quick cut will be able to create separation. i guess i havent watch enough high level game tape to see how good creative is now, but with CB builds looking how they will, i would still be on the fence about it. the jumping in the build would also worry me since i know many good CB builders who are looking at about 81 jumping.
Norse
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You want real advice?
Firstly, train tackling to 120, then make sure you stick 100-105 on throwing. Then get your punting up to a minimum of 70.
Baddabing! job done!
Firstly, train tackling to 120, then make sure you stick 100-105 on throwing. Then get your punting up to a minimum of 70.
Baddabing! job done!
bhall43
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Originally posted by monsterkill
wait, catch fake is good? honest question, because last time i remember considering catch fake, it rarely fired and barely made the CB stutter
yes it is good. its not super OP'd like it was before. but it works correctly in gaining the separation needed to make the catch roll easier.
wait, catch fake is good? honest question, because last time i remember considering catch fake, it rarely fired and barely made the CB stutter
yes it is good. its not super OP'd like it was before. but it works correctly in gaining the separation needed to make the catch roll easier.
Mob-6
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Originally posted by bhall43
Pretty good model of a Possession Build:
Attributes:
strength : 6
speed : 90.02 (+57) = 147.02
agility : 81.18
jumping : 79.18
stamina : 56.02
vision : 56.19
confidence : 48.02
blocking : 6
throwing : 8
catching : 90.13
carrying : 56.19
tackling : 8
kicking : 8
punting : 8
Top SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 4 (+6) | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Additional SA Tree: | Catch Fake 8 |
+37.5% Catch Ball AEQ
Given that speed and agility are your two highest attributes and the tree you invested SAs, it would make the most sense to go with a speedster archetype for this build which would technically put it outside the realm of "possession WR."
Have Bort or Catch confirmed what triggers Catch Fake? Is it a fake like HF or Juke where higher vision helps? The description is fairly worthless as to what it needs.
Pretty good model of a Possession Build:
Attributes:
strength : 6
speed : 90.02 (+57) = 147.02
agility : 81.18
jumping : 79.18
stamina : 56.02
vision : 56.19
confidence : 48.02
blocking : 6
throwing : 8
catching : 90.13
carrying : 56.19
tackling : 8
kicking : 8
punting : 8
Top SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 4 (+6) | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Additional SA Tree: | Catch Fake 8 |
+37.5% Catch Ball AEQ
Given that speed and agility are your two highest attributes and the tree you invested SAs, it would make the most sense to go with a speedster archetype for this build which would technically put it outside the realm of "possession WR."
Have Bort or Catch confirmed what triggers Catch Fake? Is it a fake like HF or Juke where higher vision helps? The description is fairly worthless as to what it needs.
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