Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jdbolick
I'm growing more and more convinced that Ball Hawk might not be that effective. How many ticks does it take a pass to go from thrown to completed? Now subtract however many ticks expire before the defender passes the check to recognize that a pass is coming. +30% to speed, agility, and vision sounds like an enormous amount, but if it's only applying for a minuscule amount of time then it's not having a huge impact. Far more important is whether or not the QB leads receivers properly. If Bort ever gets that nailed down, corners without 150+ speed will be up shit creek.

Go ahead an take ballhawk off your secondary for season 20. Take one for the team and let us know how it works out.

Originally posted by jdbolick
How many ticks does it take a pass to go from thrown to completed? .

roughly 9-10 ticks for a 15 yard pass which is funny considering how fast a receiver can run.

One problem with QBs leading WRs may simply be that WRs are running faster than the QB is able to throw the ball

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by jdbolick

How many ticks does it take a pass to go from thrown to completed? .

roughly 9-10 ticks for a 15 yard pass which is funny considering how fast a receiver can run.

One problem with QBs leading WRs may simply be that WRs are running faster than the QB is able to throw the ball


Bingo.


Not literally faster, but too fast for the ball speed for all intents and purposes on vertical routes.

Originally posted by tautology
Go ahead an take ballhawk off your secondary for season 20. Take one for the team and let us know how it works out.
There aren't a lot of better choices for coverage VAs, I just think that using Ball Hawk as an excuse to skimp on speed is a bad idea.


Originally posted by Rage Kinard
roughly 9-10 ticks for a 15 yard pass which is funny considering how fast a receiver can run. One problem with QBs leading WRs may simply be that WRs are running faster than the QB is able to throw the ball
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1250&pbp_id=275835

Edit:
First link looks like a good lead, but I found another that shows expected slow-down - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1250&pbp_id=275848

On the play with the lead -

It takes 19 ticks for ball to get to the receiver.
The receiver is a CB (labled balanced CB) so he isn't going to be as fast as a speed WR to begin with and has OOP penalty

I went back and looked him up
9115|Typical Balanced |CB |30.00 |90.00 |70.00 |50.00|50.00|65.00|50.00|9.00 |30.00||10.00 |35.00|10.00|10.00|8.00


So his speed was 90.


That means he was slow enough so that the QB could lead him properly.

In the second one you are still dealing with a CB. (typical speed CB) I didn't look up that game and the player stats to see what his stats were, but probably still only 130 or 135 speed. It took the ball 20 ticks to get there. His slowing down could very well be that the QB simply couldn't throw the ball far enough in front of him of his position and speed in relation to the velocity QB can get on the ball.

Now take WRs running with speed that is effectively higher than 170 after VAs and SAs kick in and consider the velocity with which QBs can throw the ball and then you see why QBs have such a hard time leading receivers. (although this would not explain the lack of leads on shorter crossing routes)

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
On the play with the lead -

It takes 19 ticks for ball to get to the receiver.
The receiver is a CB (labled balanced CB) so he isn't going to be as fast as a speed WR to begin with and has OOP penalty

I went back and looked him up
9115|Typical Balanced |CB |30.00 |90.00 |70.00 |50.00|50.00|65.00|50.00|9.00 |30.00||10.00 |35.00|10.00|10.00|8.00


So his speed was 90.


That means he was slow enough so that the QB could lead him properly.





I think that was the old, old test with the 300 speed guy actually....

Originally posted by tautology

I think that was the old, old test with the 300 speed guy actually....
Yeah. I posted that more because it's some odd, interesting data about how QBs will lead (or won't) very high speed players.

Originally posted by tautology

I think that was the old, old test with the 300 speed guy actually....

I actually took the time to go back and find the game (it's on like page 17 or 18 of the test server links) and look at player build for that specific game.

the stats posted above for typical balanced CB are copied and pasted from the player summary link for that game

Bort said that his speed for that game was ~200 or something.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Bort said that his speed for that game was ~200 or something.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game_summaries/1250.txt

I found the wrong typical balanced CB. The one for San Jose is 300. the one for Tulsa is 90.

I really really really can't wait for some of these 170 speed wr's...

The 150+ throwing, 100+ strength, 100+ vision QBs might actually be able to hit them in stride fifty yards downfield.

Originally posted by jdbolick
The 150+ throwing, 100+ strength, 100+ vision QBs might actually be able to hit them in stride fifty yards downfield.

I don't think those numbers are possible and still round out...

If you have those numbers, what would you need to round out?

Edit:

My own QB could get to 150 / 100 / 94 with a pretty normal investment in secondaries, SAs, and four pieces of AEQ. If I trained optimally like some of the stuff Rage has figured out, I'm sure he could reach 150 / 100 / 100.

Originally posted by jdbolick
If you have those numbers, what would you need to round out?

Edit:

My own QB could get to 150 / 100 / 94 with a pretty normal investment in secondaries, SAs, and four pieces of AEQ. If I trained optimally like some of the stuff Rage has figured out, I'm sure he could reach 150 / 100 / 100.

Depends on whether you think high agility is worthwhile, along with how many SAs you think are worthwhile....(dump off, on the run for instance).