Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jdbolick
A lot of CBs don't worry about tackling until they have gotten speed / agility / vision / jumping where they want it. Most don't worry about it ever.

FYP

Originally posted by bug03
FYP

But do the "most" that you are talking about, miss a lot of tackles like the guy in the OP? If so, then "most" should be switching their building styles IMO.

I am trying to learn something here, so if it sounds like I am being a smart ass, I am not trying to be...LOL ... Sometimes stuff I say on here gets taken the wrong way so I figured I would add that before everyone gets pissed at me...LOL.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=958157
48 str 61 tkl
15 missed tackles since s17.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1152080
55 str 50 tkl 6 in wrap up tkl sa
23 missed tackles since s17

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1206872
40 str 61 tkl 4 in wrap up tkl sa
23 missed tackles since s17

These are my own personal dots. All 130+ speed 80+ agility and 80+ vision.
I see no correlation do you?

Originally posted by bug03
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=958157
48 str 61 tkl
15 missed tackles since s17.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1152080
55 str 50 tkl 6 in wrap up tkl sa
23 missed tackles since s17

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1206872
40 str 61 tkl 4 in wrap up tkl sa
23 missed tackles since s17

These are my own personal dots. All 130+ speed 80+ agility and 80+ vision.
I see no correlation do you?



Seems to me like those guys miss a lot of tackles especially considering the few tackles that they actually make. I haven't built any players to those levels yet, and haven't really looked at a lot of players yet, but to me it seems like their tackle to missed tackle ratio isn't very good. I hope the teams they have played on have a lot of safety help over the top built in. If not seems like to me that a lot of those missed tackles could be going for touchdowns. Like I said I haven't done a lot of research on this so I could be wrong, but I really don't want my guys missing that many tackles.

One other question though. Those guys tackling is in the 50's and 60's. You haven't completely neglected tackling have you? Does tackling get that high with out putting any points in it at all, like you have suggested you have done? Sorry for the newbie questions. I am trying to learn, please give me a break...LOL

They're probably missing HB/FB tackles not WR tackles though. you don't need much tackling to tackle WRs since they aren't big and they rarely load up on strength. If they do, they're probably not gonna go very far in terms of yards. Tackling HBs and FBs are the jobs of the LBs and Safeties. You could argue that CBs need be able to tackle HBs well too but every point put into focusing on tackling HBs is another point focused away from covering WRs.

Overall it's good to get tackling to 48, but not entirely necessary because the CBs primary job is to cover WRs. If you're dependent on your CBs to make tackles on HBs/FBs then your rushing defense is probably crap.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1408412

http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=1374251&playoffs=0


I guess tackling will help when you reach higher levels..but I would go with vision to 74 then jumping. To 61 then vision to 77 jumping to 68 then strenght since it interacts more with the deflection rolls or w.e. also football genius. And ball hawk

Originally posted by El_Windex
They're probably missing HB/FB tackles not WR tackles though. you don't need much tackling to tackle WRs since they aren't big and they rarely load up on strength. If they do, they're probably not gonna go very far in terms of yards. Tackling HBs and FBs are the jobs of the LBs and Safeties. You could argue that CBs need be able to tackle HBs well too but every point put into focusing on tackling HBs is another point focused away from covering WRs.

Overall it's good to get tackling to 48, but not entirely necessary because the CBs primary job is to cover WRs. If you're dependent on your CBs to make tackles on HBs/FBs then your rushing defense is probably crap.

THIS - although I would say that if a WR is loading up on strength and carrying, he has to make the catch on your CB before he can break the tackle.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=1426599&playoffs=0

7 tackles and 5 missed tackles.

let's look at the missed tackles
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461174&pbp_id=4294270
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461173&pbp_id=3650730
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461173&pbp_id=3654320
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461376&pbp_id=3003174
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461376&pbp_id=3007323

against WL teams missed tackles
vs. Lincoln (none missed)

vs. Alpine
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1492224&pbp_id=1939664
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1492224&pbp_id=1940443


Also, I think 3 or 4 of his tackles are on RBs as well. I haven't seen him miss a single tackle on a WR, and one reason his tackles are so low is because he doesn't give up many completions.

edit: BTW - 30 tackling

I just don't see how missing as many tackles as you make should be acceptable, regardless of which position it is against. I understand that the RB's that this guy missed are pretty good players, but every one of those missed tackles almost went for a TD. If that guy would have had higher than 30 Tackling, more than likely he would have made the tackle limiting a few of those runs to a loss of yardage. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I am by no means saying that a CB's Tackling needs to be as high as some other positions like LB and FS/SS, but I do think there should at least be some points spent here or do like I have done so far and add Tackling to the multi-training. But these guys that are saying it is not needed are a lot more experienced than I am so they are probably right, but I am hard headed most of the time anyway...LOL Thanks for all the input guys.

Originally posted by Da18thLetter28
If that guy would have had higher than 30 Tackling, more than likely he would have made the tackle limiting a few of those runs to a loss of yardage..

If he would have had 60+ tackling, sure. But with 45-50 tackling then he would still probably miss at least 2/3 of the tackles he missed. Plus, he has to get into position to make the tackle. That means having the attributes to break or avoid the block of the WR (or other player) and get into position to make the play.

If he invests heavily in tackling, then he becomes a liability in coverage because those points have to come from somewhere, and once again, he may not have even got into position to make the tackle if you rob other attributes to invest in tackling.

also
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461174&pbp_id=4294270 - he misses but 2 other guys there, didn't cost anything

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461173&pbp_id=3650730 - he misses. So do 2 other players and the FS has much higher tackling. They slow down HB to let LB make play.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461173&pbp_id=3654320 - same thing as before. FS also misses tackle, but they give LB time to get to back.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461376&pbp_id=3003174 - this is missed in backfield where SYM may be working against him as well. He would need over 60 tackling and probably 15 VA in DvG to have a shot.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461376&pbp_id=3007323 - FS misses, he misses. SS makes tackle.

There is no way he could afford to have more tackling than that FS who is missing tackles on half of those plays and still be a competent cover CB.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
If he would have had 60+ tackling, sure. But with 45-50 tackling then he would still probably miss at least 2/3 of the tackles he missed. Plus, he has to get into position to make the tackle. That means having the attributes to break or avoid the block of the WR (or other player) and get into position to make the play.

If he invests heavily in tackling, then he becomes a liability in coverage because those points have to come from somewhere, and once again, he may not have even got into position to make the tackle if you rob other attributes to invest in tackling.

also
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461174&pbp_id=4294270 - he misses but 2 other guys there, didn't cost anything

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461173&pbp_id=3650730 - he misses. So do 2 other players and the FS has much higher tackling. They slow down HB to let LB make play.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461173&pbp_id=3654320 - same thing as before. FS also misses tackle, but they give LB time to get to back.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461376&pbp_id=3003174 - this is missed in backfield where SYM may be working against him as well. He would need over 60 tackling and probably 15 VA in DvG to have a shot.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1461376&pbp_id=3007323 - FS misses, he misses. SS makes tackle.

There is no way he could afford to have more tackling than that FS who is missing tackles on half of those plays and still be a competent cover CB.



I agree on most of what you said here. What is SYM? The Short Yardage Monster VA? Sorry, just trying to make sure I understand. I never said invest heavily in tackling. I strictly said that there may be a need to add a few points or train it some along the way. I guess a lot of it comes down to the team your guy plays for as well. If you know for a fact that there will always be that safety help to make the tackles your guy can't make, then you do have an advantage of not needing to make the tackle.

Like I said before, I am hard headed and you have a lot more experience than I do, so you are more than likely right and I am wrong. With that said, I will continue to train tackling so hopefully my CB's won't need to rely on the safeties to make all the tackles on guys that my guy slows down.

Different strokes for different folks. I've considered making a relatively high tackling set of CBs, but it's too expensive and takes too long.