Warrior General Games

Stonewall

This player is simply hard to move. Each level of Stonewall gives a +1% bonus to resisting being knocked down or pushed back, both while blocking and being blocked.

Plus imagine a OT having a bonus to not being pushed back and you have nothing to counter that....

Originally posted by direfire
Stonewall

This player is simply hard to move. Each level of Stonewall gives a +1% bonus to resisting being knocked down or pushed back, both while blocking and being blocked.

Plus imagine a OT having a bonus to not being pushed back and you have nothing to counter that....

That's what Wall is for bub. Also, unless they make it so rushers can't just slide through tiny gaps and the line being held actually matters, you're better off breaking the block and making the tackle (even if you lose a little ground)... because holding steady and not breaking the block will net you exactly the same as let's say being pancaked would.

Originally posted by Homage

Also, unless they make it so rushers can't just slide through tiny gaps and the line being held actually matters, you're better off breaking the block and making the tackle (even if you lose a little ground)... because holding steady and not breaking the block will net you exactly the same as let's say being pancaked would.



fix yer builds

I found Stonewall to work very well on rushing DEs too.

If stonewall gives you a bonus to not getting pushed back, then doesn't that mean it gives you a boost to the push back roll, which means you have more of a chance of winning it, which means more of a chance of getting to the revcake roll, or at least pushing back the blocker?

Bort says the rolls are related, so if you win one you move to the next, and if you win one by a big difference you get a bonus to the next roll... so why wouldn't stonewall be useful for a STR DE? I don't use it, but that's because I haven't gotten to my 4th or 5th VA on my STR DE yet... it seems like a decent choice after BR, HW, and PC... PT might be good for backfield tackles, but i don't think that will be important if I can't break the block.

Not getting caked is my main reason for using stonewall. It virtually eliminates the chance to get caked by an equal or slightly better opponent. Check, ill take that. Oh and +15 to holding ground. Sold. Thats got run stuf d linemen all over it.

Originally posted by trichome1
Not getting caked is my main reason for using stonewall. It virtually eliminates the chance to get caked by an equal or slightly better opponent. Check, ill take that. Oh and +15 to holding ground. Sold. Thats got run stuf d linemen all over it.

If you are getting pancaked much, your build is either bad or extremely specialized. If it is specialized (basically an all speed guy) then don't waste your time with stonewall, get something that will really help you.

Originally posted by tautology
If you are getting pancaked much, your build is either bad or extremely specialized. If it is specialized (basically an all speed guy) then don't waste your time with stonewall, get something that will really help you.

All I read...

Originally posted by Homage
That's what Wall is for bub. Also, unless they make it so rushers can't just slide through tiny gaps and the line being held actually matters, you're better off breaking the block and making the tackle (even if you lose a little ground)... because holding steady and not breaking the block will net you exactly the same as let's say being pancaked would.

Get Diving Tackle and a little jumping.... Really fix ya build.

Originally posted by Homage
All I read...

Really need to get over yourself I would take a plethora(sp?) of builders over you any day of the week. I don't wanna offend you but you haven't even seen the build and you're calling it bad. Get a grip there is definitely more then one way to peel an apple.

Originally posted by direfire
Get Diving Tackle and a little jumping.... Really fix ya build.

I think taut was being facetious... and anyone who's seen my builds (taut just happens to be one of 'em) knows my guys have plenty of jumping for a DT/DE's standards. Hell you can look at my lawlable DE on Alpine. His build is open to the team.

Originally posted by direfire
Really need to get over yourself I would take a plethora(sp?) of builders over you any day of the week. I don't wanna offend you but you haven't even seen the build and you're calling it bad. Get a grip there is definitely more then one way to peel an apple.

I've been getting this a lot lately. Not really sure why... but that's cool if you don't like my dawts. I've never had a problem finding people who do and I doubt I ever will.

I'm really a nice guy. It just seems people confuse unbiased jibber jabber as internet tough guy talk. I'm going to be blunt and to the point. I'm not going to sugarcoat it like many other people do. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings... but seriously, grow up.

P.S. I was merely commenting on taut's statement... which is ENTIRELY true. No one even said anything about this guy's build. People are asking about Stonewall and we're saying NO at all junctures, regardless of the build. I just added that if you're getting pancaked, you're pretty useless as a DE. Just how I feel... some people love speed DE's. I'm not one of them. So sue me.

Originally posted by Homage
I've been getting this a lot lately. Not really sure why... but that's cool if you don't like my dawts. I've never had a problem finding people who do and I doubt I ever will.

I'm really a nice guy. It just seems people confuse unbiased jibber jabber as internet tough guy talk. I'm going to be blunt and to the point. I'm not going to sugarcoat it like many other people do. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings... but seriously, grow up.

P.S. I was merely commenting on taut's statement... which is ENTIRELY true. No one even said anything about this guy's build. People are asking about Stonewall and we're saying NO at all junctures, regardless of the build. I just added that if you're getting pancaked, you're pretty useless as a DE. Just how I feel... some people love speed DE's. I'm not one of them. So sue me.


I love how you speak on you and taut's behalf, and once again fail to mention or even realize the fact that stonewall helps not getting pushed back. You haven't hurt nobody's feelings... getting hurt on the internet was sooo yesterday!! I just wanted to let you know as a fellow alpiner what a jack you are making yourself out as.

and.... lol at thinking that jumping not even soft capped is enough for

Originally posted by direfire
Get Diving Tackle and a little jumping.... Really fix ya build.

You as an builder that never has had trouble "finding people that like your dots" (Do even the bad builders have trouble with this? I mean I found a spot on Alpine ) should know that by little I met at least 48 if not 61....

But it's a moot point because I doubt you ever will invest in a stupid SA such as diving tackle.... It doesn't help revcake, or break blocks, or even rush the.... oh wait what's the thread title

Edited: To insert jab at myself!

ITT: post in thread are underestimating the value of workout warrior on a high strength build

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
ITT: post in thread are underestimating the value of workout warrior on a high strength build

I don't. My DE doesn't even have Pocket Crusher anymore. And my NT has both Pocket Crusher and WW at this point.

Originally posted by direfire
I love how you speak on you and taut's behalf, and once again fail to mention or even realize the fact that stonewall helps not getting pushed back. You haven't hurt nobody's feelings... getting hurt on the internet was sooo yesterday!! I just wanted to let you know as a fellow alpiner what a jack you are making yourself out as.

and.... lol at thinking that jumping not even soft capped is enough for

Originally posted by direfire
Get Diving Tackle and a little jumping.... Really fix ya build.

You as an builder that never has had trouble "finding people that like your dots" (Do even the bad builders have trouble with this? I mean I found a spot on Alpine ) should know that by little I met at least 48 if not 61....

But it's a moot point because I doubt you ever will invest in a stupid SA such as diving tackle.... It doesn't help revcake, or break blocks, or even rush the.... oh wait what's the thread title

Edited: To insert jab at myself!



48 is a personal choice. 61 is overkill. I think you're overestimating the value of jumping. And I think Diving Tackle has value, just not on a pass rushing DE (which is the only build you can see).

As far as Stonewall, I don't believe in it for D-linemen. It has its purpose for O-linemen, but D-linemen should focus on breaking blocks and disrupting the run/pass. Holding the O-linemen up doesn't do that. Also, because of the SA Wall (which I feel all D-linemen should bring to 6-8 at least regardless of type) you can invest your VP's into something else that will help you be disruptive. The only time D-linemen get pushed back is during run defense. So Wall is the perfect SA in combating that... and it happens to be really effective.

I argue against stonewall because of it's lack of value when you have Wall. VA's are resettable but they're still important to a build, and you can invest 15 into something else that will increase your players overall value in being a play-maker.