Warrior General Games

TtD,
My WR averaged around 60%. And the possession WR cant get open so he was reduced to 5th string. My O is run first anyway. You are right that it is frustrating and that my catch % is on the lower end really at about 60% as a core but 70+% if you include TE and Running back. So I am working with an over all passing percentage of 70 percent with zero players having over 70 catching in a AAA league.. Total passing yards: 4807


Now lets compare the Champion of the league: (no win Pros, which I beat in regular season.)
Carcas Leon: They show very similar numbers. How their buidls look I dont know. Passing yards 4834

Compare your team in the world leagues:
your WRs are averaging 51.75% one of which averaged only 36% granted from the looks of it he is not a possession WR but an Agility one. Your Possession WR averaged 68%. But again as a core 50% on a winning WL team. Include the WR you picked up from AAA coming in at 40% there.

Assuming that the Possession WR is built like you suggest he is getting only an 8% point boost from all the extra Sp in catching.

I understand that competition is stiffer in the WL and it is impossible to compare apples to apples, but when comparing teams and WR cores their is a pattern. That being, catching isnt gaining you that much of a statistical advantage.

Ill conclude saying that I am not against high catching, but I refute the idea that one cant compete at high levels with out the 75-85 catching. Proof being that your best catching receiver had the worst production out of the core. My Wr had all very similar production numbers, because they are built very similar. but again my one possession Wr had the worst production.

As I stated, I was working with an inferior passing team with no true receivers, we had to make do with a five speed receiver offense that had no receiver over 70 catching and with minimal opportunity tomodify builds (the 68% guy we managed to convert partially but it was a hacksaw job rather than an ideal adjustment). I'm speaking from a position of experience with such an offense, and i've been orchestrating the complete rebuild of our WR corps. for this WL season accordingly, having managed to grind our way to a conference title last season.

Sure it's possible to win with such a team, but it's bloody difficult, for a decent passing team check the Chicago Hedgehogs from USA Pro (may be moving up to WL) that my WR was on last season, they had a couple of high catching high production WRs.

Originally posted by sjkiller81
Again not sure where your experience and knowledge in this comes from, you dont even have a WR built.


Besides that: you bring up a good point about the Corners. That is why I was suggesting boosting Catching once you find your WR losing the battle with the Corners. Unlike you two I have a WR and have had one as well as have coached the OC for AAA, AA teams. Rarely do I use a WR with over 70 catching. They all perform quit well without it. Do corners PD them some? yes. But how often? a handful of times per WR per season? If that is all then it would be a royal waste of SP to try to eliminate 4-5 or even 5-10 PDs in a season by posting catching from 68-73 or 77 costing 20+ SP points. A better return would be using a VA or maybe a few points into a catching SA. Either way catching is being over rated by many WRs IMO

To be honest, I'm not sure what having a WR has to do with it.

I've OCd at most levels of this game, and also seen the builds of top-level receivers. As the sim stands right now, a good DC will make it just about impossible for your WRs (regardless of build) to consistently gain separation against well-built corners. Additionally, most of your better teams run some form of zone, increasing the likelihood that you're going to have to make contested catches. If you're running with 60 catching against cornerbacks with 95-100 agility, 80 vision, 60-68 jumping, and 10+ Swat Ball and SDC (as well as Deflect Ball % EQ, much of the time), you're going to suffer a ton of deflections.

Sunshine,

YOur right to a point. another problem is the pass plays suck. The O playbook should be very easy for Ds to plan against. There is no real strategy given to the O. I would like to be able to create or pick a number of plays that would exploit a zone like most Ds run. But the playbook is so limited it doesnt allow that. But what you are suggesting is that separation for a WR is almost impossible so they should all push catching very high so to out roll the corners. Not sure that is an accurate way of looking at WRs. They would all be pretty dang cookie cutter in that case.

TtD,
Would love to see some of their WRs builds. They did move to WL.

Take it fwiw, but I would not touch a WR with my Pro/WL team that can't have at least 3-capped catching by day 1. I don't agree that all WR builds need 75+, though I'd argue that perhaps high catching builds are rarer in glb than they should be.

Originally posted by sjkiller81
not sure what WR you are refering too. your profile shows no player over 50.
95 speed is slow BTW so your trade off is speed and SAs.

You apparently are pretty good at typing large quantities; on the other hand you fail at reading even a couple of sentences.
Also 95 speed is not low if you're not a speed WR. It's plenty considering, as I said, that my WR is balanced (and built for play out of slot position.)
My point however, that you've seemed to miss, is that there are in fact many SP to go around if you boost, even with a "balanced" or "agility" oriented build. Perhaps 95 agility isn't what you'd consider an agility build. Please enlighten if so.

The fact that my WR isn't over level 50 has no bearing on what I said. There's a nifty tool called the GLB Player Builder that comes in handy for this and a few other things, you should check it out.

Originally posted by Djinnt
The fact that my WR isn't over level 50 has no bearing on what I said. There's a nifty tool called the GLB Player Builder that comes in handy for this and a few other things, you should check it out.

Well it kind of does. The builder is a good tool to predict your future build but doesnt give you any insight on how effective that build will be. Only time reading other peoples experiences and your own can help you learn that. Having such a young player tells me you have little experience in that regard.

Originally posted by Djinnt
Also 95 speed is not low if you're not a speed WR. It's plenty considering, as I said, that my WR is balanced (and built for play out of slot position.)

I consider it slow even for a balanced build...especially for a balanced build. For a true possession Wr maybe not, that is why i said the trade off is the speed. You sacrifice speed Att for others. Not bad but fact. Personally I think doing that way is wasteful. Each has their own opinions either way. I am giving mine.

Originally posted by Djinnt
Y
My point however, that you've seemed to miss, is that there are in fact many SP to go around if you boost, even with a "balanced" or "agility" oriented build. Perhaps 95 agility isn't what you'd consider an agility build. Please enlighten if so.

You are wrong. You only have a set number of points you will be able to assign in a WR life. Especially now that there is a decline. So if you put more into one Att that is that many you cant put into another. Trade offs and efficiency is what we are arguing here. Which is better? How much is enough? What is optimal? Ect

95 is an agility build, my point is that I think (my opinion) is that you would do better to reduce the amount of points in catching and put them in speed, or vision, SAs..... whatever you want. That the return you get for going with 70 catching to 80 isnt going to be all that much percentage wise.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Take it fwiw, but I would not touch a WR with my Pro/WL team that can't have at least 3-capped catching by day 1. I don't agree that all WR builds need 75+, though I'd argue that perhaps high catching builds are rarer in glb than they should be.

that only being 68; which is reasonable in my mind. 75-80-85....why? There is a place for that build but people here are arguing for that to be the norm for WR to perform in the big leagues. According to WiSeIVIaN that doesn't seem to be the case.

Originally posted by sjkiller81
that only being 68; which is reasonable in my mind. 75-80-85....why? There is a place for that build but people here are arguing for that to be the norm for WR to perform in the big leagues. According to WiSeIVIaN that doesn't seem to be the case.



Depends--I don't think I'm arguing that every receiver needs 80-85 catching, although some possession builds will find it useful. I guess my main point is that I would not feel comfortable using a receiving with sub-68 catching in any high-level competitive league, regardless of the rest of the build.

Originally posted by sjkiller81
that only being 68; which is reasonable in my mind. 75-80-85....why? There is a place for that build but people here are arguing for that to be the norm for WR to perform in the big leagues. According to WiSeIVIaN that doesn't seem to be the case.



I am merely a competent voice on the subject, and not quite a prophet by any means. TtD has a worthwhile opinion as well. His WR caught 89% of his targets in S13 (league/playoffs, blowouts excluded) which I'm reasonably certain is the highest % for any WR in Pro/WL.

But ya. Though I would still consider Possession receiver, Mr. Reliable, and Soft hands to be the top 3 WR VA's (in no particular order). While some WRs are beautiful, I find high level FA WR's to be disappointing at best as of late. So many try to be speed receivers while not being fast enough for me to consider them as such. They simply call themselves speed receivers because all equipment is in there, and they've neglected catching/jumping and instead invested heavily in fake SA's and who knows what else.

Though imo, WR discussion is good stuff and I'm glad to see this thread (even if you all end up hating each other).

Originally posted by sjkiller81

95 is an agility build, my point is that I think (my opinion) is that you would do better to reduce the amount of points in catching and put them in speed, or vision, SAs..... whatever you want. That the return you get for going with 70 catching to 80 isnt going to be all that much percentage wise.


You'd probably shit yourself if I told you how much vision I have.

In any case your argument is that I don't know (as in, have experience in) whether or not 85 catching will help or is unnecessary.
I could say the same to you, and unless you could provide either a receiver of any sort that catches 100% of his targets (to prove the argument of efficiency), or a receiver who has a similar (95/95/85) build and is unsuccessful, you'd null any purpose for your assertion.

Originally posted by sjkiller81
the return you get for going with 70 catching to 80 isnt going to be all that much percentage wise.

to be fair, i would say the exact same thing about all of the other attributes as well.

How are you guys getting the numbers for how many of your targets were caught? Are you just going through the game logs and adding it up, or is there some wonderful greasemonkey script that does it?

Originally posted by marcello
How are you guys getting the numbers for how many of your targets were caught? Are you just going through the game logs and adding it up, or is there some wonderful greasemonkey script that does it?

pbr game scout (you can find it on userscripts.org pretty easily)

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
pbr game scout (you can find it on userscripts.org pretty easily)



Has anyone else found game scout to be really inaccurate as far as specific target numbers go, though? Idk, just don't really trust it.