Warrior General Games

You won't 'suffer' if you raise vision beyond 60.

Just because you can say, "I didn't get it and my guy does okay" doesn't mean you know the outcome of actually getting it.
There are obviously many ways to build a successful receiver.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
You won't 'suffer' if you raise vision beyond 60.

Just because you can say, "I didn't get it and my guy does okay" doesn't mean you know the outcome of actually getting it.
There are obviously many ways to build a successful receiver.

True, but by the same token saying that more than 60 vision is good on a WR with no evidence is just as uncertain.

Though, of course, I agree that there are many ways to make a successful WR Daddy, you smart mofo.

We'll see in a couple seasons when my WR has high vision (and is well built for a possession/balanced role)

Meh....Vision at 48 + 15 in Ball Hawks FTW.

Originally posted by taz20075
Meh....Vision at 48 + 15 in Ball Hawks FTW.

I'm doing vision at 68+ and 15 in ball hawk.

high vision/catching/agility and you will have a great possession WR that gets open if you run alot of plays that require change of direction. the problem i see with most OCs is that they expect possession WRs to run the same streak routes as speed guys and then wonder why the possession WR doesnt get open.

I'm totally with WiSeIVIaN and Mob-6 on this one.

They give good advice. You guys should listen. Look at their WR's. Compare them to the WR's of vision advocates. I don't care if Bort says vision is the most important thing ever. Look at the application and come to your own conclusion.

It's useful to a degree at raising catching percentage. I also think WR's come back to the ball better and create a little more separation after the ball is thrown so they have more room to run.

But once they do these things 'well enough' (aka great YAC and high completion %) what is the point exactly of adding vision?

Originally posted by The_Jonas
But once they do these things 'well enough' (aka great YAC and high completion %) what is the point exactly of adding vision?


That's a silly question, because the answer is blindingly obvious: greater YAC and higher completion %.

Originally posted by Zurai
That's a silly question, because the answer is blindingly obvious: greater YAC and higher completion %.

Well, no. You're cherry picking and ignoring the whole 'Diminishing returns' part.

Originally posted by The_Jonas
Well, no. You're cherry picking and ignoring the whole 'Diminishing returns' part.

Which whole "diminishing returns" part? The one you didn't mention at all in your post? How can I be cherry picking around a detractor when the detractor isn't even mentioned? I even double-checked Wise and Mob's posts, and THEY didn't mention diminishing returns, either.

Your question is silly. You're asking "once a character is perfect, what's the point in vision?". My response: "Once your character is perfect, you can ask that question. Until then, it's a silly question."

To break that down into even simpler terms, you're saying that vision is pointless because your character is doing things "well enough". You're equating acceptable ("well enough") with perfect (cannot be improved).

Vision improves your player's ability to get thrown the ball, to catch the ball, and to run with the ball after it's caught. Until your WR catches every single pass for a touchdown, vision will help you to some degree. It may well be that other stats will be more efficient at achieving the goal you've set, but vision still has a point.

Originally posted by Zurai
Which whole "diminishing returns" part? The one you didn't mention at all in your post? How can I be cherry picking around a detractor when the detractor isn't even mentioned? I even double-checked Wise and Mob's posts, and THEY didn't mention diminishing returns, either.

Your question is silly. You're asking "once a character is perfect, what's the point in vision?". My response: "Once your character is perfect, you can ask that question. Until then, it's a silly question."

To break that down into even simpler terms, you're saying that vision is pointless because your character is doing things "well enough". You're equating acceptable ("well enough") with perfect (cannot be improved).

Vision improves your player's ability to get thrown the ball, to catch the ball, and to run with the ball after it's caught. Until your WR catches every single pass for a touchdown, vision will help you to some degree. It may well be that other stats will be more efficient at achieving the goal you've set, but vision still has a point.

Agreed. But having said that..The OP question still remains. Is it worth spending the SP into Vision to reach the 2nd,3rd or 4th cap when that SP can go to the higher attributes on that check down list? Judging on what Wise, Mob and apparently Bort says, I will have to say it isnt until Catching, Jumping, maybe even Carrying is at high lvls first.

Originally posted by kentrol72
Agreed. But having said that..The OP question still remains. Is it worth spending the SP into Vision to reach the 2nd,3rd or 4th cap when that SP can go to the higher attributes on that check down list? Judging on what Wise, Mob and apparently Bort says, I will have to say it isnt until Catching, Jumping, maybe even Carrying is at high lvls first.

It depends on what kind of receiver you're building.
Look at VAs and SAs, pick 3 VAs to be your core and 2 SAs at the minimum that have synergy together. Assume what sort of caps you should meet with your attributes to support a build with those VAs and SAs and achieve them.

A receiver with possession receiver, ball hawk and football genius won't benefit more from having 120 speed and 35 vision than 90 speed and 70 vision. That much is obvious I think.

This doesn't resolve the question but...

I have noted a direct correlation between reception % and vision, and a pretty strong one at that.

That doesn't mean that vision is your best bang for the buck, but it likely means that those points in vision are not wasted.


That being said, I am entirely fed up with the mysteries and seemingly uncontrollable nature of WR builds.

Some WRs are just good, some will just suck, most are average. And build certainly plays a strong factor, but not nearly as much as you might think.

Originally posted by tautology

This doesn't resolve the question but...

I have noted a direct correlation between reception % and vision, and a pretty strong one at that.

That doesn't mean that vision is your best bang for the buck, but it likely means that those points in vision are not wasted.


That being said, I am entirely fed up with the mysteries and seemingly uncontrollable nature of WR builds.

Some WRs are just good, some will just suck, most are average. And build certainly plays a strong factor, but not nearly as much as you might think.


offensive tactics and DC play the biggest part in a WR's success, imho.


I mean, assuming you don't have a complete wreck for a build. But i'm seeing the vision-catch corollary too.

remember.. we are talking about a "possession" receiver here.

a "possession" receiver just needs to catch the ball and gain a few yards, not have huge burst of speed or break tackles.

a "possession" receiver should be built to do one thing and one thing only compared to a speed or agility based receiver.

good discussion otherwise, but remember the OP question and stay on point IMO.