Warrior General Games

Train on strength on occation... not really worth anything

more strength helps you jackhammer.

Originally posted by Korwin
more strength helps you jack off.

fyp

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
60 would be high strength for a CB. I think anything beyond that and you're sacrificing serious necessary value elsewhere.

That's what I was going to say--60--I've seen plenty of guys running around with capped strength, but most of the times I've seen a CB with much higher than that he just ended up being immobile and useless.

Why--has anyone experimented with high-strength corners?

My 2 corners are 60-strength corners. Take a look at their pbp's if you want to. They aren't shut down, but they're better than a lot.

Experimented for a long time with backing off from the WR's to entice throws and force passes knocked loose and fumbles. Experiment is still somewhat underway, but I'm pretty sure it's a fail.

However, a lot of their tackles do come in the run game and against other receivers that they're not lined up against.

ETA: Plays from today's scrimmage of top 10 teams
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7634941 never closed in on WR, got juked down, 7 yard gain
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7635397 PD in double coverage
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7636116 pancaked WR and tackled Tea Baggins (wtf?)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7636453 on an island, decent cover, 15-yard 3rd down conversion : (
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7638637 PD route w/ lots of cuts, jukes

ETA2: Plays from my other CB's top opponent
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6088593 tackle on HB in secondary
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6092045 pancakes WR, tackles TE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6093010 5-yd completion : ( on other team's KR/PR
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6096066 PD

My first CB in that same game:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089377 tackle on game's top rushing qb
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089478 tackle on another cb's man
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089516 tackle on the hb
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6093763 good coverage, PD (knocked loose)

High strength corners are valuable with the increase in WRs with higher strength and blocking dominating in the pitch and screen game. We have a corner with str in the 50s and i see him pancake WRs sometimes which helps in run support

Originally posted by JD Cuda
My 2 corners are 60-strength corners. Take a look at their pbp's if you want to. They aren't shut down, but they're better than a lot.

Experimented for a long time with backing off from the WR's to entice throws and force passes knocked loose and fumbles. Experiment is still somewhat underway, but I'm pretty sure it's a fail.

However, a lot of their tackles do come in the run game and against other receivers that they're not lined up against.

ETA: Plays from today's scrimmage of top 10 teams
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7634941 never closed in on WR, got juked down, 7 yard gain
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7635397 PD in double coverage
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7636116 pancaked WR and tackled Tea Baggins (wtf?)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7636453 on an island, decent cover, 15-yard 3rd down conversion : (
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7638637 PD route w/ lots of cuts, jukes

ETA2: Plays from my other CB's top opponent
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6088593 tackle on HB in secondary
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6092045 pancakes WR, tackles TE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6093010 5-yd completion : ( on other team's KR/PR
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6096066 PD

My first CB in that same game:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089377 tackle on game's top rushing qb
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089478 tackle on another cb's man
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089516 tackle on the hb
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6093763 good coverage, PD (knocked loose)

Interesting.

I'm guessing you play fairly loose coverage settings and then use Ballhawk+fairly high speed with low SAs? Would be great run defenders (very valuable against an outside rushing team/rushing QB)--but it seems like you give up some coverage ability.

Would you say so far that while the high strength is helping you get off blocks well for pitches, etc . . . the whole Jackhammer plan is not working? Or have you seen positive results?

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
Originally posted by JD Cuda

My 2 corners are 60-strength corners. Take a look at their pbp's if you want to. They aren't shut down, but they're better than a lot.

Experimented for a long time with backing off from the WR's to entice throws and force passes knocked loose and fumbles. Experiment is still somewhat underway, but I'm pretty sure it's a fail.

However, a lot of their tackles do come in the run game and against other receivers that they're not lined up against.

ETA: Plays from today's scrimmage of top 10 teams
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7634941 never closed in on WR, got juked down, 7 yard gain
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7635397 PD in double coverage
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7636116 pancaked WR and tackled Tea Baggins (wtf?)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7636453 on an island, decent cover, 15-yard 3rd down conversion : (
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=674782&pbp_id=7638637 PD route w/ lots of cuts, jukes

ETA2: Plays from my other CB's top opponent
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6088593 tackle on HB in secondary
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6092045 pancakes WR, tackles TE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6093010 5-yd completion : ( on other team's KR/PR
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6096066 PD

My first CB in that same game:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089377 tackle on game's top rushing qb
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089478 tackle on another cb's man
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6089516 tackle on the hb
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=590715&pbp_id=6093763 good coverage, PD (knocked loose)

Interesting.

I'm guessing you play fairly loose coverage settings and then use Ballhawk+fairly high speed with low SAs? Would be great run defenders (very valuable against an outside rushing team/rushing QB)--but it seems like you give up some coverage ability.

Would you say so far that while the high strength is helping you get off blocks well for pitches, etc . . . the whole Jackhammer plan is not working? Or have you seen positive results?

My speed is not fairly high imo. The vast, vast majority of CBs I see on here have more speed than my guys. One of my CBs is heavily invested in SAs; the other is most definitely not.

High strength does allow them to get off blocks well for the pitches and vision is wonderful for that too. Jackhammer is a waste of a VA imo. When you have 60 strength, you knock away those balls anyway. I haven't seen an increase in passes knocked loose after I invested in Jackhammer.

My coverage settings, I believe, are the furthest back of any of the CBs on my teams.

Somewhere in the CB ratings forum, there's a build for one of my guys.

Tackling plays a factor in fumbles(therefore knocked loose plays as well) too, not just strength. Also, it seems to be best with safeties who can get a bit of momentum for the hits.


May I ask why you play so far back? Did you play on medium last season? If close was working last season, why not just stay with 0yds or .15-.25 yds? Just curious as i retired my CB

Originally posted by chronoaug
Tackling plays a factor in fumbles(therefore knocked loose plays as well) too, not just strength. Also, it seems to be best with safeties who can get a bit of momentum for the hits.


May I ask why you play so far back? Did you play on medium last season? If close was working last season, why not just stay with 0yds or .15-.25 yds? Just curious as i retired my CB

Tackling is 50ish on both of them too.

Playing further back to entice more throws their direction with a bigger chance to knock the passes loose. Reasoning is that 1) the cushion will draw more throws and 2) the cushioning + ballhawk will provide more momentum at the point of impact.

Like I said before, I think this little cushion experiment is a failure. When I switch to close coverage, I knock loose just as high (if not a higher) percentage of targets. Additionally, I get targeted less.

While the initial experiment was to sacrifice his PD, INT, and Tkl numbers (read: raise the PD and tkl and lower INT...not that I was getting much with them anyway) to help the team, it wasn't really working as intended. Instead, the added cushion allowed more space for juke-happy WRs to get the ball in space and put a move or two on my CB, and it allowed other defenders to come over and tackle my man.

Experiment is pretty much a fail. One of my CB's is already back on super tight coverage; the other is at about 1 yard. I still experiment a little from game to game, mostly in scrimmages b/c both my teams play a lot, but most competitive games I have them set pretty close.

Yea, our CBs were overthinking the sliders early in the season as well. Things have looked a lot better once they went back to closer coverage