100 throwing. 15 vision. :/
reallifedavid
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I know hes not done. And I always intended to bring speed and agi up. But I did imagine catching was the key attribute. It seems one of the problems with WR is that their are like 5 main attributes. That is more than any other position and creates that odd situation where minors auto level more than mains for WR.
For that reason, I believe WR is the toughest position to create.
And what I was invisioning for my player is a guy who catches anything near him. Even if he immediately goes down. But the type of guy who a QB can throw it in his direction and he will somehow come up with the ball. You could say an ideal dump pass receiver.
For that reason, I believe WR is the toughest position to create.
And what I was invisioning for my player is a guy who catches anything near him. Even if he immediately goes down. But the type of guy who a QB can throw it in his direction and he will somehow come up with the ball. You could say an ideal dump pass receiver.
Djinnt
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I understand your goal but for receivers you need to:
1. Get open, or open enough to be thrown to
2. Not be pass deflected or intercepted
3. Catch the ball
4. Not have it muscled away during the catch
5. Not fumble when you're tackled
YAC isn't necessary, but can help.
You can achieve reliability with VAs/SAs later in your career. Catching is important, but agility, vision, jumping, carrying and catching all factor in to whether or not you catch, and speed, agility and vision factor into whether or not the ball gets swatted/intercepted and whether or not you get open enough for the QB to throw to you.
It isn't so much that WRs are hard to build (though vs some positions they are more challenging) it's that they rely a lot on how good your defender is as well. If you're not better in some area, namely getting open enough to not be deflected and pulling the ball in (securely) you don't stand a chance aside from getting lucky.
1. Get open, or open enough to be thrown to
2. Not be pass deflected or intercepted
3. Catch the ball
4. Not have it muscled away during the catch
5. Not fumble when you're tackled
YAC isn't necessary, but can help.
You can achieve reliability with VAs/SAs later in your career. Catching is important, but agility, vision, jumping, carrying and catching all factor in to whether or not you catch, and speed, agility and vision factor into whether or not the ball gets swatted/intercepted and whether or not you get open enough for the QB to throw to you.
It isn't so much that WRs are hard to build (though vs some positions they are more challenging) it's that they rely a lot on how good your defender is as well. If you're not better in some area, namely getting open enough to not be deflected and pulling the ball in (securely) you don't stand a chance aside from getting lucky.
RobertRJS
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Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
My possession receiver will have 90 speed and 80 agility by level 48.
And he'll still catch the ball 80% of the time.
I don't see why people imagine possession being slow.
If you look at the NFL, "possession" type receivers are still VERY fast.
I really could not imagine a person running say a 6 second 40, which is what yours would do right now (or slower) and still be able to do well in professional football. He'd have someone consistently in his face, and what's the appeal to throw to you at that point? QBs want to hit an open man.
Then say for some reason the QB does decide to throw to the guy who's heavily covered. What's the guarantee that since the CB is RIGHT THERE ON TOP OF YOU, probably even IN FRONT of you, that he doesn't grab it before you ever get a chance to, or swat it away?
And what if the throw isn't perfect? It's 5 yards to the right and it's a fast throw because the QB was under hurry pressure? You don't have the ability to adjust to the throw because you're slow and can't turn.
Agility is one of, if not the largest factor in being a possession receiver.
that's not a possession receiver, that's balanced.
My possession receiver will have 90 speed and 80 agility by level 48.
And he'll still catch the ball 80% of the time.
I don't see why people imagine possession being slow.
If you look at the NFL, "possession" type receivers are still VERY fast.
I really could not imagine a person running say a 6 second 40, which is what yours would do right now (or slower) and still be able to do well in professional football. He'd have someone consistently in his face, and what's the appeal to throw to you at that point? QBs want to hit an open man.
Then say for some reason the QB does decide to throw to the guy who's heavily covered. What's the guarantee that since the CB is RIGHT THERE ON TOP OF YOU, probably even IN FRONT of you, that he doesn't grab it before you ever get a chance to, or swat it away?
And what if the throw isn't perfect? It's 5 yards to the right and it's a fast throw because the QB was under hurry pressure? You don't have the ability to adjust to the throw because you're slow and can't turn.
Agility is one of, if not the largest factor in being a possession receiver.
that's not a possession receiver, that's balanced.
RobertRJS
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Originally posted by reallifedavid
Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 9
Speed: 16.3
Agility: 14.3
Jumping: 39.3
Stamina: 13.3
Vision: 14.3
Confidence: 15
Football Skills
Blocking: 10
Catching: 63.3
Tackling: 9
Throwing: 10
Carrying: 15
Kicking: 8
Punting: 10
No SA's. This is my first WR so im just shooting in the dark here. I was going to take catching to 100. Thats not good?
You know what. Don't just listen to everyone. If you want to build someone unique, DO IT. What do you have to lose?
But do know that you will need some speed and agility to succeed. There are no WRs in the NFL that run as slow as Big Papi of the Red Sox. You don't have to be a burner, however.
IMO, I would 3rd cap catching since you're close. Then decide what your second highest attribute should be. Strength? jumping? Speed? Agility?
Then pump that up.
IMO, you will have to get speed/agility to at least 60 eventually, if not a bit higher to have any chance, because you can't waddle down the field like a penguin.
But that doesn't mean you can't be unique. Trust me, a below 70 speed/agility WR will be unique on GLB. Or heck, he could be high 90 catch, 80 agility, 68 speed. That would be unique too.
Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 9
Speed: 16.3
Agility: 14.3
Jumping: 39.3
Stamina: 13.3
Vision: 14.3
Confidence: 15
Football Skills
Blocking: 10
Catching: 63.3
Tackling: 9
Throwing: 10
Carrying: 15
Kicking: 8
Punting: 10
No SA's. This is my first WR so im just shooting in the dark here. I was going to take catching to 100. Thats not good?
You know what. Don't just listen to everyone. If you want to build someone unique, DO IT. What do you have to lose?
But do know that you will need some speed and agility to succeed. There are no WRs in the NFL that run as slow as Big Papi of the Red Sox. You don't have to be a burner, however.
IMO, I would 3rd cap catching since you're close. Then decide what your second highest attribute should be. Strength? jumping? Speed? Agility?
Then pump that up.
IMO, you will have to get speed/agility to at least 60 eventually, if not a bit higher to have any chance, because you can't waddle down the field like a penguin.
But that doesn't mean you can't be unique. Trust me, a below 70 speed/agility WR will be unique on GLB. Or heck, he could be high 90 catch, 80 agility, 68 speed. That would be unique too.
Djinnt
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Originally posted by RobertRJS
Originally posted by reallifedavid
Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 9
Speed: 16.3
Agility: 14.3
Jumping: 39.3
Stamina: 13.3
Vision: 14.3
Confidence: 15
Football Skills
Blocking: 10
Catching: 63.3
Tackling: 9
Throwing: 10
Carrying: 15
Kicking: 8
Punting: 10
No SA's. This is my first WR so im just shooting in the dark here. I was going to take catching to 100. Thats not good?
You know what. Don't just listen to everyone. If you want to build someone unique, DO IT. What do you have to lose?
But do know that you will need some speed and agility to succeed. There are no WRs in the NFL that run as slow as Big Papi of the Red Sox. You don't have to be a burner, however.
IMO, I would 3rd cap catching since you're close. Then decide what your second highest attribute should be. Strength? jumping? Speed? Agility?
Then pump that up.
IMO, you will have to get speed/agility to at least 60 eventually, if not a bit higher to have any chance, because you can't waddle down the field like a penguin.
But that doesn't mean you can't be unique. Trust me, a below 70 speed/agility WR will be unique on GLB. Or heck, he could be high 90 catch, 80 agility, 68 speed. That would be unique too.
1. Neither of those are unique.
2. Possession, in the terms you designate, does not exist in GLB or the NFL.
Originally posted by reallifedavid
Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 9
Speed: 16.3
Agility: 14.3
Jumping: 39.3
Stamina: 13.3
Vision: 14.3
Confidence: 15
Football Skills
Blocking: 10
Catching: 63.3
Tackling: 9
Throwing: 10
Carrying: 15
Kicking: 8
Punting: 10
No SA's. This is my first WR so im just shooting in the dark here. I was going to take catching to 100. Thats not good?
You know what. Don't just listen to everyone. If you want to build someone unique, DO IT. What do you have to lose?
But do know that you will need some speed and agility to succeed. There are no WRs in the NFL that run as slow as Big Papi of the Red Sox. You don't have to be a burner, however.
IMO, I would 3rd cap catching since you're close. Then decide what your second highest attribute should be. Strength? jumping? Speed? Agility?
Then pump that up.
IMO, you will have to get speed/agility to at least 60 eventually, if not a bit higher to have any chance, because you can't waddle down the field like a penguin.
But that doesn't mean you can't be unique. Trust me, a below 70 speed/agility WR will be unique on GLB. Or heck, he could be high 90 catch, 80 agility, 68 speed. That would be unique too.
1. Neither of those are unique.
2. Possession, in the terms you designate, does not exist in GLB or the NFL.
RobertRJS
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1. unique relatively speaking. how many receivers around are below 70 speed by level 50? It's a small percentage, I'm sure
2. I haven't designated a "possession" receiver in any term. But your build base is certainly not possession in GLB terms, it's clearly balanced. I haven't even mentioned a possession receiver in terms of NFL players.
2. I haven't designated a "possession" receiver in any term. But your build base is certainly not possession in GLB terms, it's clearly balanced. I haven't even mentioned a possession receiver in terms of NFL players.
drakeborn
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Originally posted by reallifedavid
I know hes not done. And I always intended to bring speed and agi up. But I did imagine catching was the key attribute. It seems one of the problems with WR is that their are like 5 main attributes. That is more than any other position and creates that odd situation where minors auto level more than mains for WR.
For that reason, I believe WR is the toughest position to create.
Nah, LBs and safeties both need more attributes. Most WRs really have three primary attributes (Speed, Agility, Catching) then a bunch they can use to specialize/differentiate (Jumping, Vision, Carrying, Strength, and even Blocking or Confidence). A MLB, otoh, needs decent Strength, Speed, Agility, Vision, and Tackling just to get started.
I know hes not done. And I always intended to bring speed and agi up. But I did imagine catching was the key attribute. It seems one of the problems with WR is that their are like 5 main attributes. That is more than any other position and creates that odd situation where minors auto level more than mains for WR.
For that reason, I believe WR is the toughest position to create.
Nah, LBs and safeties both need more attributes. Most WRs really have three primary attributes (Speed, Agility, Catching) then a bunch they can use to specialize/differentiate (Jumping, Vision, Carrying, Strength, and even Blocking or Confidence). A MLB, otoh, needs decent Strength, Speed, Agility, Vision, and Tackling just to get started.
Djinnt
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Originally posted by RobertRJS
1. unique relatively speaking. how many receivers around are below 70 speed by level 50? It's a small percentage, I'm sure
2. I haven't designated a "possession" receiver in any term. But your build base is certainly not possession in GLB terms, it's clearly balanced. I haven't even mentioned a possession receiver in terms of NFL players.
You've clearly designated it to be less than 90 speed 80 agility, which was your only contribution.
How many receivers are below 70 speed by level 50 and ever catch a ball or actually have a spot on a roster? A more important question.
There are probably none. Because less than 70 speed by level 50 is almost hard to attain it's so crappy.
Every receiver needs to be able to get open. Possession, balanced, and speedster.
90 speed with equipment means you got to the 68 cap. That's pretty much minimum as far as I'm concerned, and minimum speed + high catching/vision orientation + running primarily short/medium routes and having high reliability = being a possession receiver.
It's more about how you're used and whether or not you pull it off that defines what type of player you are, less so your build - only in the sense that your build has to help you do it.
1. unique relatively speaking. how many receivers around are below 70 speed by level 50? It's a small percentage, I'm sure
2. I haven't designated a "possession" receiver in any term. But your build base is certainly not possession in GLB terms, it's clearly balanced. I haven't even mentioned a possession receiver in terms of NFL players.
You've clearly designated it to be less than 90 speed 80 agility, which was your only contribution.
How many receivers are below 70 speed by level 50 and ever catch a ball or actually have a spot on a roster? A more important question.
There are probably none. Because less than 70 speed by level 50 is almost hard to attain it's so crappy.
Every receiver needs to be able to get open. Possession, balanced, and speedster.
90 speed with equipment means you got to the 68 cap. That's pretty much minimum as far as I'm concerned, and minimum speed + high catching/vision orientation + running primarily short/medium routes and having high reliability = being a possession receiver.
It's more about how you're used and whether or not you pull it off that defines what type of player you are, less so your build - only in the sense that your build has to help you do it.
RobertRJS
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Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
You've clearly designated it to be less than 90 speed 80 agility, which was your only contribution.
I didn't give any indication it was less or more, that is a straw man. In fact, I specifically said that's "balanced." You have no idea what I perceive as a possession receiver on glb, except that it's not a 90-80 speed-agility split. That's is.
Originally posted by
How many receivers are below 70 speed by level 50 and ever catch a ball or actually have a spot on a roster? A more important question.
There are probably none. Because less than 70 speed by level 50 is almost hard to attain it's so crappy.
If there are none, then it's impossible to know you can't create an effective build that way, Duh.
Originally posted by
Every receiver needs to be able to get open. Possession, balanced, and speedster.
There are a few ways other than speed atrribute to gain separation. You can also increase speed via SAs such as First Step and Route Run. You can also run the WR Screen a lot or really short routes that often don't rely on actually getting open but rather a high catching/jump/possession SA roll.
Originally posted by
90 speed with equipment means you got to the 68 cap. That's pretty much minimum as far as I'm concerned, and minimum speed + high catching/vision orientation + running primarily short/medium routes and having high reliability = being a possession receiver.
I've seen a successful receiver with less than 90 speed and I believe in Pro, though possible AAA. 90 is most certainly not the "minimum."
Originally posted by
It's more about how you're used and whether or not you pull it off that defines what type of player you are, less so your build - only in the sense that your build has to help you do it.
That is mostly true for the NFL and somewhat here in dotball, but it's pretty much accepted throughout conversation I've had that the 90-100 and 75-80 split (speed and agility respectively) is pretty much a balanced build. If that's not balanced, than what is? 105/110-70 is balanced now?
You've clearly designated it to be less than 90 speed 80 agility, which was your only contribution.
I didn't give any indication it was less or more, that is a straw man. In fact, I specifically said that's "balanced." You have no idea what I perceive as a possession receiver on glb, except that it's not a 90-80 speed-agility split. That's is.
Originally posted by
How many receivers are below 70 speed by level 50 and ever catch a ball or actually have a spot on a roster? A more important question.
There are probably none. Because less than 70 speed by level 50 is almost hard to attain it's so crappy.
If there are none, then it's impossible to know you can't create an effective build that way, Duh.
Originally posted by
Every receiver needs to be able to get open. Possession, balanced, and speedster.
There are a few ways other than speed atrribute to gain separation. You can also increase speed via SAs such as First Step and Route Run. You can also run the WR Screen a lot or really short routes that often don't rely on actually getting open but rather a high catching/jump/possession SA roll.
Originally posted by
90 speed with equipment means you got to the 68 cap. That's pretty much minimum as far as I'm concerned, and minimum speed + high catching/vision orientation + running primarily short/medium routes and having high reliability = being a possession receiver.
I've seen a successful receiver with less than 90 speed and I believe in Pro, though possible AAA. 90 is most certainly not the "minimum."
Originally posted by
It's more about how you're used and whether or not you pull it off that defines what type of player you are, less so your build - only in the sense that your build has to help you do it.
That is mostly true for the NFL and somewhat here in dotball, but it's pretty much accepted throughout conversation I've had that the 90-100 and 75-80 split (speed and agility respectively) is pretty much a balanced build. If that's not balanced, than what is? 105/110-70 is balanced now?
Edited by RobertRJS on Jun 28, 2009 03:33:12
Edited by RobertRJS on Jun 28, 2009 03:32:47
Djinnt
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You're dancing around the point. If you thought possession receivers should have more than 90 speed or 80 agility you'd have said so, instead you try to point out some technicality like it gives you an edge in the conversation.
Furthermore, I challenge you to find a WR with less than 70 speed at level 50 who has even moderate success.
Even as a "possession build," they all apply.
Route running is only going to go so far. Running screens with mediocre speed will get you mediocre YAC, in which case you should pass to someone else instead of risking a TFL.
As for defining "balanced," it has to do a lot with your SA/VA selection. I think a balanced WR is a receiver that builds attributes mostly like a speedster but doesn't focus on SAs the way a speedster would.
Furthermore, I challenge you to find a WR with less than 70 speed at level 50 who has even moderate success.
Even as a "possession build," they all apply.
Route running is only going to go so far. Running screens with mediocre speed will get you mediocre YAC, in which case you should pass to someone else instead of risking a TFL.
As for defining "balanced," it has to do a lot with your SA/VA selection. I think a balanced WR is a receiver that builds attributes mostly like a speedster but doesn't focus on SAs the way a speedster would.
Edited by Daddy Warbucks on Jun 28, 2009 10:01:49
dviss1
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Originally posted by RobertRJS
Originally posted by reallifedavid
Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 9
Speed: 16.3
Agility: 14.3
Jumping: 39.3
Stamina: 13.3
Vision: 14.3
Confidence: 15
Football Skills
Blocking: 10
Catching: 63.3
Tackling: 9
Throwing: 10
Carrying: 15
Kicking: 8
Punting: 10
No SA's. This is my first WR so im just shooting in the dark here. I was going to take catching to 100. Thats not good?
You know what. Don't just listen to everyone. If you want to build someone unique, DO IT. What do you have to lose?
But do know that you will need some speed and agility to succeed. There are no WRs in the NFL that run as slow as Big Papi of the Red Sox. You don't have to be a burner, however.
IMO, I would 3rd cap catching since you're close. Then decide what your second highest attribute should be. Strength? jumping? Speed? Agility?
Then pump that up.
IMO, you will have to get speed/agility to at least 60 eventually, if not a bit higher to have any chance, because you can't waddle down the field like a penguin.
But that doesn't mean you can't be unique. Trust me, a below 70 speed/agility WR will be unique on GLB. Or heck, he could be high 90 catch, 80 agility, 68 speed. That would be unique too.
IMO those would be horrible WR builds.
Originally posted by reallifedavid
Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 9
Speed: 16.3
Agility: 14.3
Jumping: 39.3
Stamina: 13.3
Vision: 14.3
Confidence: 15
Football Skills
Blocking: 10
Catching: 63.3
Tackling: 9
Throwing: 10
Carrying: 15
Kicking: 8
Punting: 10
No SA's. This is my first WR so im just shooting in the dark here. I was going to take catching to 100. Thats not good?
You know what. Don't just listen to everyone. If you want to build someone unique, DO IT. What do you have to lose?
But do know that you will need some speed and agility to succeed. There are no WRs in the NFL that run as slow as Big Papi of the Red Sox. You don't have to be a burner, however.
IMO, I would 3rd cap catching since you're close. Then decide what your second highest attribute should be. Strength? jumping? Speed? Agility?
Then pump that up.
IMO, you will have to get speed/agility to at least 60 eventually, if not a bit higher to have any chance, because you can't waddle down the field like a penguin.
But that doesn't mean you can't be unique. Trust me, a below 70 speed/agility WR will be unique on GLB. Or heck, he could be high 90 catch, 80 agility, 68 speed. That would be unique too.
IMO those would be horrible WR builds.
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