Warrior General Games

Originally posted by YOM77
Originally posted by misled

Neg. If you know how to build, you can build a STRONG and AGILE FB with plenty of speed by the late 20's early 30's. I'm proving that right now with my current build. Does it have vision? No. But that is the final addition. By the time you can even work on vision, the auto level gains are so minute you're better off just going onto speed.

My guy currenty has 90 str/63 blk/50agi @ lvl 20.

Meh. This is fail, imo. Speed for a FB gets a big fat ZERO in terms of natural gains. Therefore, it should be the last attribute that a blocking FB builds up, so as to get as much out of the natural gains on the other attributes as possible.

And for a blocking FB, speed is absolutely NOT more important than strength.

There is a TON of bad advice floating around about blocking FBs. And people wonder why there's no good ones out there. Because knuckleheads are telling people that speed > strength for a pure blocking FB.

0.15 per level is jack shit sir. Is it better than 0? Certainly... but at what cost?
Can you 1 cap vision accurately and quickly without assessing it early on... hell yes.

My FB is lvl 21 now and hasn't put a dime in vision. From the start of what it was, up until now... it's a whopping 14. Those level gains are huge I guess. It went from 10 to 14 in 20 levels. AMAZING use of natural level gains. So if I 1-capped vision at lvl 1. I'd have 53 vision. HOLY SHIT. Your argument would hold water if we were talking about TE's... but it means jack shit in reference to vision v. speed for a FB. I think both are important... but I would much rather spend my time training speed up to like 40ish than train vision there and THEN have to train speed after. This way I can train vision/confidence until he dies.

Originally posted by misled
0.15 per level is jack shit sir. Is it better than 0? Certainly... but at what cost?
Can you 1 cap vision accurately and quickly without assessing it early on... hell yes.

My FB is lvl 21 now and hasn't put a dime in vision. From the start of what it was, up until now... it's a whopping 14. Those level gains are huge I guess. It went from 10 to 14 in 20 levels. AMAZING use of natural level gains. So if I 1-capped vision at lvl 1. I'd have 53 vision. HOLY SHIT. Your argument would hold water if we were talking about TE's... but it means jack shit in reference to vision v. speed for a FB. I think both are important... but I would much rather spend my time training speed up to like 40ish than train vision there and THEN have to train speed after. This way I can train vision/confidence until he dies.

It's all about efficiency when building... those who are more efficient generally have better builds, when their player peaks.

+4 vision at the 2 per point range is the equivalent to 4 free SPs, over +4 vision at the 1 per point range. It's all give and take though, is that 4 extra vision more beneficial than say +4 carrying or blocking in your build? It's definitely more beneficial than not gaining any free SPs from cap building.

This is the reason that people slow and/or cap build. Taking their primary attribute(s) to the 5 per point range as soon as possible... turning those 4 free SPs into 16 free SPs (aka 3 levels of an advantage over people that don't).

As for the importance of vision in a blocking FBs build... I wouldn't spend an SP on it until, the 4 other more important attributes, are where I need them to be first. Raising speed before vision is the best move, if you want to contribute sooner. Raising vision before speed is the best move, if you want to slow build longer.

Originally posted by YOM77
Originally posted by pottsman

Originally posted by blocktoberfest


Originally posted by Warlock




Strength doesn't need to be super high, because you rarely have to block high strength players. Blocking doesn't have to be super high, because you rarely have to block for a long period of time. There is no block, if you cannot get into position in time... God forbid you are blocking for a speed/elusive back... you'll need speed over 80 at a minimum.

this is truth. speed back on my team. hard to stay in front of.





Definitely. A speed back running inside means that even an 80ish speed fullback is useless. A speed back running outside, you should have outside blocker, and you're good.
High strength is very useful on the rare occaision that the NT breaks through and you have to pick him up. But when its rare to find a linebacker with strength over 70, why do you need strength at 90?

I raise the BS flag on this one.

It USED to be rare to find a LB with 70 strength. But since the Power Back fiasco, LB's are pumping strength with tenacity. LB's are packing 70 strength now.



From my experience, 70 STR on a FB will win most of the time vs. a 70 STR LB. I actually have 70 STR on a CB (also plays ST) and have watched him flatten the WR, only to have a FB with less STR insta-pancake him.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=601105&pbp_id=4446950
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=601105&pbp_id=4446841
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=601105&pbp_id=4451411

Just for discussion's sake, this is my FB (47 then) in a couple early-game plays. It's not the top level of competition, but it's nothing to sneeze at, and it's a solid team in our league.

This was my first player I made, and he isn't built particularly efficiently. But in these plays, he's at 93 or so strength and only 69 speed and 62 agility. He's managing to get outside for our HB, who, granted, isn't a 100 speed player. So I don't think it's a must to have 90 agility/80 speed to be effective. Outside blocker -- I'll be maxed in a couple days -- will definitely help on pitch plays.

That said, since then I've dropped all my 48 equipment into speed and another point into agility. I should be able to add four more agility to get to the third cap by the end of the season. I realize he needs it, as he cuts it close getting to the block occasionally.

There's a lot of discussion about blocking FBs. I've been told, by good builders/owners/etc. that a good blocking FB should be 90/90 in strength/blocking and that speed and agility doesn't need to be more than 60/60. Guys I'm watching are all over the place in between. Some are 80/70 Strength/Blocking. Some are 90/55 but aren't really that bad at blocking because they have good agility and speed (lending support for that argument).

There's different avenues to take when building a blocking FB. Having built my FB as a blocker early in his career and having two very successful offensive linemen, I can tell you right now that agility is vastly underrated for blocking (especially in the current state of the sim). There's no magic number and if you focus too heavily on an attribute, it'll only end up hurting your player in the long run.

Nowhere am I telling people to neglect strength or blocking, which are also key components in the blocking formula. I'm only suggesting to make agility the primary attribute, because it's secondary function is more important to a FB than say having 100 strength or 100 blocking. Primarily because you rarely have to block high strength defenders or have to hold a block for an extended period of time (unlike offensive linemen). Although that added acceleration and maneuverability from agility is tremendous on a FB.

Plus high agility and speed with max outside blocker, leaves no room for doubts, you will get there with plenty of time to set up a block and also be in a better position when you block (which is a huge help for a HB). That's the part that the high strength guys overlook... the more the HB has to move laterally, the more time defenders have to shed blocks and pursue.

IMO

Build two blocking FBs, and outside Blocker and an inside blocker. This way your team can have the best of both worlds. They can divide plays by assigning the outside blocker to screens and pitches and the inside blocker to slams, dives and off tackle plays.

Basically build the FBs to take advantage of their SAs and VAs. Obviously lead block SA will be needed for both. Downfield blocker should be a good VA for the inside FB and outside blocker should be a good VA for the outside FB. The outside blocker should have high speed/agility good blocking/vision and good strength to round out the build. The inside blocker should be a crazy strong player since he may have to take on a NT. The outside blocker should have just enough strength to occupy a strong LB and enough speed and agility to get his hands on a slippery FS or SS.

If you put them both on ST and split plays they should be able to get max playing time and help the team in a major way.

Or you can just slowbuild and get both of them in one cute little package.

Originally posted by Kramer
There's a lot of discussion about blocking FBs. I've been told, by good builders/owners/etc. that a good blocking FB should be 90/90 in strength/blocking and that speed and agility doesn't need to be more than 60/60.

Please, link me to these people/statements. I barely see offensive linemen with 90 blocking, and 60 agility is asking to fail.

Originally posted by pottsman
Originally posted by Kramer

There's a lot of discussion about blocking FBs. I've been told, by good builders/owners/etc. that a good blocking FB should be 90/90 in strength/blocking and that speed and agility doesn't need to be more than 60/60.

Please, link me to these people/statements. I barely see offensive linemen with 90 blocking, and 60 agility is asking to fail.

There's plenty of them... from S7 or earlier. Hell, I used to be one of those people, but the sim has changed a lot since those days. So to must our strategies.

Most of my info comes from PMs that I send asking questions. I don't really trust a lot of what I see on these boards and forums. I've been playing since Season 1 and I've seen people intentionally give bad information (not joking either).

This thread has made me happy. My player was a FB and it was ugly. I recently went to restart the FB and my build plan seems to be right in line with what most people think is appropriate.

I triple capped Strength first. Agility is next, followed by blocking. After that Vision and speed are last up. I am probably going to alternate capping each of them. All equipment is going in speed, for now at least. I do have 500,000 saved up from a PeeWee team so I can get myself a 2nd set of gear. Once I get speed triple capped I will probably have 2 pieces of EQ in Speed and 2 in Agility.

Here is my build at 15;

The Sewer Urchin (Lv. 15 FB)
Ht/Wt: 6'3", 233lbs

Experience, Skill Points, and Cash
Money: $530881
Daily Salary: $1678
Skill Points: 1
Training Points: 0
Bonus Tokens: 7
Veteran Points: 0
Next Level: 379/1000

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 71
Speed: 16
Agility: 53
Jumping: 8
Stamina: 12.8
Vision: 13.8
Confidence: 12.8

Football Skills
Blocking: 29
Catching: 12.8
Tackling: 12.8
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 20
Kicking: 8
Punting: 8

Special Abilities
Blocking Abilities
Hands: 0
Lead Block: 0
Spot Blitz: 0
Strong Arm: 0
Pancake: 0

Offensive Abilities
Cover Up: 0
Sticky Hands: 0
Power Through: 0
Quick Cut: 0
Dive for Yardage: 0

Speed is untouched, the only reason it is at 16 is EQ.

you left on agility way too soon

Really cause it is going to 68 before I touch anything else so, not sure what you are saying. And for a level 15 I don't know how I could get it much higher without having super slow built the guy.

I personally did blocking before I touched agility simply because I trained str/blk together and it was just a natural fit. I did however, only bring it to the second cap and then went to work on agility. You seem like you're on the right track. Although, personally, I'd go with equip in str at the end of your career as speed/agility will eventually be perfectly capable to handle any blocking duties thrown your way with the correct VA's and SA's.