Warrior General Games

At this point catching past 74 is just detrimental to the WRs build. OP, your guys is going to suck terribly unless you are the owner or OC of the team, list your guy as the primary target and load up on G2G. You are going to want to have a minimum of 90 speed with equipment at level 40 if they don't prioritize catching more. The faster guys will get ALL the looks. My possession WR can't get a look from the CB and the best possession WR in the game has tailed off considerably this season as the speedsters on his team are taking away from him far more with this seasons sim changes.

Originally posted by Mob-6
At this point catching past 74 is just detrimental to the WRs build. OP, your guys is going to suck terribly unless you are the owner or OC of the team, list your guy as the primary target and load up on G2G. You are going to want to have a minimum of 90 speed with equipment at level 40 if they don't prioritize catching more. The faster guys will get ALL the looks. My possession WR can't get a look from the CB and the best possession WR in the game has tailed off considerably this season as the speedsters on his team are taking away from him far more with this seasons sim changes.

curious .. whos the best possession wr in the game

Originally posted by Kryzantine
But this thread has degenerated into a "how to build a receiver" issue. I'd like to keep this so I can have updates on my experiment (which, I think is actually progressing pretty well, and it is not only informative, but helpful).

The thread is still here...

Mob-6, so what you're saying is that I should build a speedster and not a possession receiver. EXCELLENT logic there, and if your mission was pissing me off, you certainly succeeded. If it wasn't, too bad.

Oh yeah, the thread is still here. But it is degenerating.

Originally posted by Kryzantine
Mob-6, so what you're saying is that I should build a speedster and not a possession receiver. EXCELLENT logic there, and if your mission was pissing me off, you certainly succeeded. If it wasn't, too bad.

Oh yeah, the thread is still here. But it is degenerating.

No, I don't care what you build- Speedster, power, or balance, but I will say that a possession WR will suck, oh wait, you already know that, you just don't realize it yet:

Originally posted by Kryzantine

My mission is catching the ball most of the time, not going 70 yards for the score. Being a big target. The fall back option for the QB when none of the speed freaks are open. So far, it's worked some games, hasn't for others.

What's that? It worked some games, but not others? Well guess what? It goes from working some games to very little once you get to a higher level. The QBs would still rather force it in to speedsters than slower possession guys. Your best bet would be to make a 90 speed balance build with a focus in the possession SAs.

Alright, now I'm convinced your mission is to purely piss me off. Well, congradufuckinglations, you succeeded. But despite your rather violent attitude, the only thing you've managed to break is my doubt. Your pessimism is averted, your argument weak and uncalculated. In fact, you have managed to convince me to actually go further with this experiment. I see pass the bias of most agents when building WRs, they need to have speed to succeed. I know better than this. I have been with this sim ever since Day 10, Season 1, and I have been toying with it ever since Season 3 with teams. I've worked with teams that have mediocre offenses, I've worked with teams that have great offenses. I know the mechanics of this game more than you, your father and your grandpapa combined do. I know what works, what doesn't, and most importantly what hasn't been tried yet. You honestly ****ing think you can change my mind? Giving up is giving in. And I certainly... Don't. ****ing. Give. In.

I'm through with your inflammatory comments. Go stick with your speedsters relying on hail mary offenses where QBs throw to the endzone and hope for miracles. I'm conducting an experiment that has value to it, and if I conclude that possession receivers simply don't work, I'll have a little something called evidence to back my argument up. Your ridiculous assertions are the equivalent to, "We've already tried researching cancer cures, but the best one we have is chemo. We shouldn't bother researching anything else and just accept cancer's high death rate". It's infuriating. It also strengthens my resolve.

You don't seem to realize this is an experiment dedicated to the study of a possession receiver's mechanics, which has substance to it due to the way I had constructed him. Getting mad at it is pointless. The theory that these builds will suck at higher, pro levels is still open for interpretation. And I will NOT be influenced or swayed a tiny bit by your ramblings. People in this thread have acknowledged that this experiment is definitely interesting and they would like to see my results. I have a damn great shot at getting conclusive results. Now you're making me ramble. Once again, congratulations, you have flamed somebody over the internet. Do you want a ****ing cookie for your effort? A medal? 'Cause you aren't going to get anything through this violent behavior.

Originally posted by Kryzantine
Alright, now I'm convinced your mission is to purely piss me off. Well, congradufuckinglations, you succeeded. But despite your rather violent attitude, the only thing you've managed to break is my doubt. Your pessimism is averted, your argument weak and uncalculated. In fact, you have managed to convince me to actually go further with this experiment. I see pass the bias of most agents when building WRs, they need to have speed to succeed. I know better than this. I have been with this sim ever since Day 10, Season 1, and I have been toying with it ever since Season 3 with teams. I've worked with teams that have mediocre offenses, I've worked with teams that have great offenses. I know the mechanics of this game more than you, your father and your grandpapa combined do. I know what works, what doesn't, and most importantly what hasn't been tried yet. You honestly ****ing think you can change my mind? Giving up is giving in. And I certainly... Don't. ****ing. Give. In.

I'm through with your inflammatory comments. Go stick with your speedsters relying on hail mary offenses where QBs throw to the endzone and hope for miracles. I'm conducting an experiment that has value to it, and if I conclude that possession receivers simply don't work, I'll have a little something called evidence to back my argument up. Your ridiculous assertions are the equivalent to, "We've already tried researching cancer cures, but the best one we have is chemo. We shouldn't bother researching anything else and just accept cancer's high death rate". It's infuriating. It also strengthens my resolve.

You don't seem to realize this is an experiment dedicated to the study of a possession receiver's mechanics, which has substance to it due to the way I had constructed him. Getting mad at it is pointless. The theory that these builds will suck at higher, pro levels is still open for interpretation. And I will NOT be influenced or swayed a tiny bit by your ramblings. People in this thread have acknowledged that this experiment is definitely interesting and they would like to see my results. I have a damn great shot at getting conclusive results. Now you're making me ramble. Once again, congratulations, you have flamed somebody over the internet. Do you want a ****ing cookie for your effort? A medal? 'Cause you aren't going to get anything through this violent behavior.

LMAO, you are the greatest troll I have seen in this forum. Way to sell it. My advice has been fairly tame and constructive, what is with your flipping out? Little tense today Short Fuse? You might check your local department store and consider purchasing a new skin, one that is a bit thicker. Anyone want to go through my comments in this thread and see if they warrant the overreaction I am getting from Krazyteen?

Are you cutting and pasting someone elses postings? What part of my posting was "violent" I don't see the context of your generalizations.

First off, you aren't doing an experiment that hasn't already been done. Welcome to the table, sorry you don't want the advice of people who have Already done what you are attempting If you want to jump off a bridge to see the result for yourself, I'm not going to stop you, all I can do is tell you "Good luck in wasting your WRs life." If you know so much about WRs since season 1 and season 3 and such, how come A) I have never seen you around this forum before, B) you seem to be completely oblivious to reality of the game, and C) You are asking for help? Did you "work" with teams with mediocre offenses or did your magnificent builds create those mediocre offenses? If you enjoy settling in mediocrity, by all means, build your possession WR, pretend speed isn't the most important attribute in the game. I'm ALexander Graham fucking Bell, I've invented electricity, you are the little peon who has decided to try and "create" electricity 50 years after I invented it. You don't want to listen to me, fine, but I've been there and done the low/no speed experiments, probably back when you were putting your first 50 SP into SAs in season 1 and 2 like a noob. You're right, don't give up or give in, fight the stupid fight. Beat your head against the wall while wearing the straight jacket, you'll show those doctors you aren't crazy. You'll see that there is a sharp curve where possession WRs with low/neglected speed sharply fall off production wise, and I'll be right there to laugh.

The best part of this is the who's who of the WR community have access to this exact experiment you are doing that is about 3 seasons ahead of the data you have collected. The evidence is there, you just don't have access to it, you don't want to listen to someone telling you the results, so fine. Feel free to ask around about me, my history of WR experiements, the fact I've challenged all the common WR biases and was a pioneer for doing so. Feel free to live in your ignorance. I'll also throw you another tidbit of advice, if you aren't going to listen to me, listen to DW.

Feel free to PM me your expected build at level 40 for this guy and we'll see what the build is classified as and I can tell you exactly the output I'd expect on him at that level. At minimum your speed must be at 68 to have a chance to be viable as you near 40. Anything else and you are a wasted WR slot.

whoa wtf happened in here???!

: popcorn :

As a matter of fact, I do have a short fuse. It helps me much more than it hurts me.

However, I already said I am through with your egregious flaming. Experiments have indeed been done in the past, but they don't mean jack because there haven't been enough experiments. Don't you remember, way back in your 4th grade science class, that one experiment does not make a reasonable truth? If your mission is to convince me not to bother with this experiment, you have failed not only in that regard, but you have actually erased any reconsideration on my part, and I am much more motivated to go through with this experiment.

Got another TD yesterday, 33 yards, corner tripped up on the play. I'm starting to pull double coverage, notably late in the game. After I 3-cap catching, I'll start working on jumping along with agility.

I'm a little peeved that after I posted I was told the thread was degenerating.
I don't know what you wanted with this thread... perhaps 60 or so people telling you, "Oh, great idea! I've never seen a possession receiver before and this experiment will totally enlighten me!"
The reality is, we've all seen that and the next build fail and succeed depending on the teams they're playing. We've seen people with your build asking for advice, and we've seen them telling us they suck, and we've seen them brag about it. This forum's been here for a long time with the same people looking at it regularly and a few people poking their head in here and there to see what's going on, sometimes to pose an "experiment."

If you bring it here though, you have to realize that this isn't the "experiment" forum. This is the "discussion of receivers" forum. So we're going to discuss your receiver any way we want when you provide it for us - it's safe to say that most of us don't care why you brought it here. We'll read your post, we'll look at your build, your projections, and then we'll think what we want about it - not what you want us to think about it. That's just not how it works.

By all means, keep posting. I get bored with "fix my build" posts anyway. Just don't get offended when we talk about possession receivers in your possession receiver thread. At least we aren't debating politics or something stupid.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in criticism as long as the manner in which it is presented is rational. I appreciate posts like, "Well, there is a potential issue in the future, when you don't run your routes fast enough as the QB pressure increases at higher competitive levels." as opposed to, "Possession receivers suck, OP, you shouldn't even bother with this pathetic 'experiment' because it will fail miserably.

That said, this thread has REALLY degenerated. I'll get back on track and simply post about my progress.

Possession receivers have their place: On teams that almost exclusively run.

Originally posted by Kryzantine

There's an important intangible in this whole discussion about speedsters over possession, and that's the # of first downs picked up. Taking both speedsters and possession receivers with good builds, the # of first downs picked up should be much larger in the possession than in the speedster. Efficiency is key to good offenses, so yeah, the speedsters will get a few TDs just running to the end zone, but when it comes to the clockwork of an offense, possession is preferred. Keeps defenses on their toes.

I wouldn't say preferred. Because honestly you need to make big plays in the game to win. But a mix of both is certainly helpful. The thing is that it's pretty easy to dominate at low levels. The question is how well will your receiver perform at higher levels when corners are 90/90 speed/agility. Will he be able to create enough separation? An interesting build for sure though, and it appears to be working for you at those levels.

My possession receiver kicked ass at low levels. Then, in his fourth season of play, he stopped getting targeted. He's been struggling to find a working formula since.

Originally posted by Kryzantine
Don't get me wrong, I believe in criticism as long as the manner in which it is presented is rational. I appreciate posts like, "Well, there is a potential issue in the future, when you don't run your routes fast enough as the QB pressure increases at higher competitive levels." as opposed to, "Possession receivers suck, OP, you shouldn't even bother with this pathetic 'experiment' because it will fail miserably.

That said, this thread has REALLY degenerated. I'll get back on track and simply post about my progress.

This is season 9, this isn't an experiment anymore than me traveling to the top of Mt. Everest is exploring. It has been done by thousands of people, you can claim this is newsworthy all you want, but it isn't.

Possession WRs do suck because their production level is horrible.. Have you looked at the QB's targeting chart? Do you see what factors the QB takes into account when making passes? Possession WRs were good last season, this season, no contest. They are struggling.


Speedsters- Big numbers
Balanced- Their in game GLB production is what an NFL style possession WRs should look like in GLB.
Possession- When you have a guy on your team crack the 100 speed barrier, kiss all your looks goodbye. The QB will favor the fast WR for the first 8 parts of the checklist, if he actually completes a pass to the possession WR it is because he didn't like the first 8 criteria for throwing the pass. What this means is that you are rarely going to see a QB make it all the way down to 9. When he does it will be because he is hurried which means that you are his last option, being slow you will have gained no separation which means even with a ton of catching and great ancillary skills, you will be lucky to catch 50% of those poorly thrown bail out balls. You will see lower level WRs with more speed get a ton more looks and wonder why guys 10 levels lower than you with 30% catching ratios are thrown to more often than your guy.