after reading the two threads, I think it is a good idea. It would not penalize teams for building a solid team and growing together. What it would do, is stop teams from going out and bringing in ringers in teh middle of the season to try and get a jump on the rest of the league. We had a couple teams do that in the BBB #3 league. I have no problem with limiting the level a player can be to either sign or trade for.
Forum > USA > USA BBB Leagues > Teams of BBB -- make your voices heard or it will be too late. VERY IMPORTANT
Asheme
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No, no, no, no.
Level 10 is only an arbitrary number thrown out as an example. The actual cap would be the league average, adjusted for the outliers.
Level 10 is only an arbitrary number thrown out as an example. The actual cap would be the league average, adjusted for the outliers.
HydrOshocK
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Originally posted by vtech9
after reading the two threads, I think it is a good idea. It would not penalize teams for building a solid team and growing together. What it would do, is stop teams from going out and bringing in ringers in teh middle of the season to try and get a jump on the rest of the league. We had a couple teams do that in the BBB #3 league. I have no problem with limiting the level a player can be to either sign or trade for.
My problem is that we are not done building our team yet. some people may call them "ringers" but I call them my other players that I created in season 1 that I want back eventually. There's only 3 of them but they are on average 1-3 levels higher than most of my current players due to the extra experience. I had to sign them with other teams because there were none left to buy. Now that I have my own team I want my guys back when their contracts expire, and in my eyes there's nothing wrong with that. I understand what you're saying about bringing them in during the middle of the season but that's what the current team chemistry hit was designed for and it works. I don't think an additional penalty is justified for that.
Of course this could be premature venting on my part because for all I know we could move out of the BBB into a higher bracket next season, or maybe not. Correct me if I'm wrong but if we lose and are stuck in the same league again next year shouldn't my goal as an owner be to make my team stronger so that I can succeed next time? Some people may be satisfied with staying put but I'm not...our goal is to keep moving up.
after reading the two threads, I think it is a good idea. It would not penalize teams for building a solid team and growing together. What it would do, is stop teams from going out and bringing in ringers in teh middle of the season to try and get a jump on the rest of the league. We had a couple teams do that in the BBB #3 league. I have no problem with limiting the level a player can be to either sign or trade for.
My problem is that we are not done building our team yet. some people may call them "ringers" but I call them my other players that I created in season 1 that I want back eventually. There's only 3 of them but they are on average 1-3 levels higher than most of my current players due to the extra experience. I had to sign them with other teams because there were none left to buy. Now that I have my own team I want my guys back when their contracts expire, and in my eyes there's nothing wrong with that. I understand what you're saying about bringing them in during the middle of the season but that's what the current team chemistry hit was designed for and it works. I don't think an additional penalty is justified for that.
Of course this could be premature venting on my part because for all I know we could move out of the BBB into a higher bracket next season, or maybe not. Correct me if I'm wrong but if we lose and are stuck in the same league again next year shouldn't my goal as an owner be to make my team stronger so that I can succeed next time? Some people may be satisfied with staying put but I'm not...our goal is to keep moving up.
Last edited May 22, 2008 01:11:44
porky
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Go ahead and attack me now. But I think this is a good idea. I think lower lvl leagues should have signing caps, morale problems, ext. This game has to fall into some sort of heirarchy system look at minors vs majors in professional sports. Right now it is a free for all. The best team move up so this should not be a problem for those who are the best. You also need to think about what happens after retirement. Do all of the Pro teams become equivalent to BBBBBBBB league? Seriously, I think the lower leagues should have caps, signing limits, morale problems for players who are too high of a lvl. Give it a couple seasons and it will all lvl out.
Let the attacks begin
Let the attacks begin
porky
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My post in the other thread:
I manage a BBB team and agree 100% with putting in a system to help develop the heirarchy. There should be morale problems for upper lvl players playing in a lower league. Additionally, there should be a lvl cap on signings and salaries. What is the point of having a heirarchy if there is no system in place to maintain the heirarchy. I would even be a fan of booting out players when they hit a certain lvl.
All in all Bort is right there has to be some structure. Earlier someone posted it would only be one game where their player got pancaked 5000 times. This is absolutely incorrect. If you look at any league right now they all have about 50% competitive teams and 50% noncompetitive teams. This needs to be adjusted.
To many people are thinking about poor me instead of taking into effect retirement, ringers, promotions, salaries, etc. If we don't start thinking long term then the game will become further and further skewed. It is an awesome game and we need to continue to promote changes like this.
I manage a BBB team and agree 100% with putting in a system to help develop the heirarchy. There should be morale problems for upper lvl players playing in a lower league. Additionally, there should be a lvl cap on signings and salaries. What is the point of having a heirarchy if there is no system in place to maintain the heirarchy. I would even be a fan of booting out players when they hit a certain lvl.
All in all Bort is right there has to be some structure. Earlier someone posted it would only be one game where their player got pancaked 5000 times. This is absolutely incorrect. If you look at any league right now they all have about 50% competitive teams and 50% noncompetitive teams. This needs to be adjusted.
To many people are thinking about poor me instead of taking into effect retirement, ringers, promotions, salaries, etc. If we don't start thinking long term then the game will become further and further skewed. It is an awesome game and we need to continue to promote changes like this.
porky
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My post on the other thread:
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
xeef
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Originally posted by Necroscope7
They aren't anti-BBB ideas, and I said they affect signing and trades in my initial post, but it seems like all you are paying attention to in these threads are the extreme case scenarios that people are coming up with, and not what Bort is actually saying. What he is floating about is nowhere near as extreme as you are implying, nor is it that detrimental. You're blowing the whole thing out of proportion and attempting to start a panic for no good reason.
For god sake, why cant you take what im saying and not try and determine what im saying? If We have 3 extra level 15s, is it that implausaible that we could trade them for a level 19? There are already people of high level in the leauge, why should we not be able to keep up in an arms race. IF its not detrimental to the lowest leauges, why would they do it. Did you read everything the man said, or just the first post of his in each thread.
They aren't anti-BBB ideas, and I said they affect signing and trades in my initial post, but it seems like all you are paying attention to in these threads are the extreme case scenarios that people are coming up with, and not what Bort is actually saying. What he is floating about is nowhere near as extreme as you are implying, nor is it that detrimental. You're blowing the whole thing out of proportion and attempting to start a panic for no good reason.
For god sake, why cant you take what im saying and not try and determine what im saying? If We have 3 extra level 15s, is it that implausaible that we could trade them for a level 19? There are already people of high level in the leauge, why should we not be able to keep up in an arms race. IF its not detrimental to the lowest leauges, why would they do it. Did you read everything the man said, or just the first post of his in each thread.
xeef
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Originally posted by porky
My post on the other thread:
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
This is WAY off topic, but you are going to have bad owners at EVERY level. dont punish good ones because of it. I dont actually expect them to do that.
As for your agreement with that, you dont get it because you are in a pro leauge. There are teams in my BBB leauge that would toast you. PERIOD. why break them up for the benefit of "the long term"
My post on the other thread:
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
This is WAY off topic, but you are going to have bad owners at EVERY level. dont punish good ones because of it. I dont actually expect them to do that.
As for your agreement with that, you dont get it because you are in a pro leauge. There are teams in my BBB leauge that would toast you. PERIOD. why break them up for the benefit of "the long term"
xeef
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Originally posted by porky
Go ahead and attack me now. But I think this is a good idea. I think lower lvl leagues should have signing caps, morale problems, ext. This game has to fall into some sort of heirarchy system look at minors vs majors in professional sports. Right now it is a free for all. The best team move up so this should not be a problem for those who are the best. You also need to think about what happens after retirement. Do all of the Pro teams become equivalent to BBBBBBBB league? Seriously, I think the lower leagues should have caps, signing limits, morale problems for players who are too high of a lvl. Give it a couple seasons and it will all lvl out.
Let the attacks begin
Im not asking anyone to agree, im asking you to voice an opinion. its like voting, if you are silly enough to vote Obama, go do it.
Go ahead and attack me now. But I think this is a good idea. I think lower lvl leagues should have signing caps, morale problems, ext. This game has to fall into some sort of heirarchy system look at minors vs majors in professional sports. Right now it is a free for all. The best team move up so this should not be a problem for those who are the best. You also need to think about what happens after retirement. Do all of the Pro teams become equivalent to BBBBBBBB league? Seriously, I think the lower leagues should have caps, signing limits, morale problems for players who are too high of a lvl. Give it a couple seasons and it will all lvl out.
Let the attacks begin
Im not asking anyone to agree, im asking you to voice an opinion. its like voting, if you are silly enough to vote Obama, go do it.
xeef
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Originally posted by Necroscope7
That level cap wouldn't penalize your team, though, because it won't affect players already signed to your team. For that matter, it isn't even certain that the morale option would affect your team, because the caps for level/morale would be determined based on the average player level in your league. That isn't all of BBB, but each BBB league individually. I don't personally agree with the morale option being floated, but the level cap would be an excellent idea if instituted in the manner Bort proposed it.
From a personally selfish standpoint, I agree with everything you said. from a leauge parity standpoint, its dangerous.
That level cap wouldn't penalize your team, though, because it won't affect players already signed to your team. For that matter, it isn't even certain that the morale option would affect your team, because the caps for level/morale would be determined based on the average player level in your league. That isn't all of BBB, but each BBB league individually. I don't personally agree with the morale option being floated, but the level cap would be an excellent idea if instituted in the manner Bort proposed it.
From a personally selfish standpoint, I agree with everything you said. from a leauge parity standpoint, its dangerous.
porky
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Originally posted by xeef
Originally posted by porky
My post on the other thread:
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
This is WAY off topic, but you are going to have bad owners at EVERY level. dont punish good ones because of it. I dont actually expect them to do that.
As for your agreement with that, you dont get it because you are in a pro leauge. There are teams in my BBB leauge that would toast you. PERIOD. why break them up for the benefit of "the long term"
Toast Me. Who? Maybe you forgot the smily face, but this point is not relevant or even accurate. would agree there are teams in the Pro Leagues that would get "toasted" by several teams in BBB. Does using caps when saying period help?
Maybe you should stick with why your point is correct instead of just attempting to insult someone.
Also just because I don't agree with you and happen to own a Pro League doesn't mean I don't get it. As a player in the BBB I have just as much of a voice as you do. Alot of people haven't agreed with you, what have you decided is their excuse. I have just as many players in BBB and actually enjoy BBB just as much for different reasons. The BBB is a very competitive league and if you bother to look at my posts in this league you will see that I enjoy this league alot.
What you want is not a pyramid type game, however that is how it is set up. The creators of the game made it a pyramid style. If you look at it realistically They are not going to recruit Adrian Peterson to play High School ball. In fact there are rules against this.
The level and salary caps make sense, I can concede that the morale may not be the best idea, because it does penalize someone for choosing to play where they have decided they enjoy.
Finally, If you don't look at the long term effects then this game will eventually become so disorganized it will no longer be enjoyable or understandable.
On side note you should really stick to argueing your point, your statement above this one is a very good point. but the two previous have no validity to your original post. If you want people to support your thoughts you should give your opinion. I think you were just surprised that not everyone in BBB agrees with you.
Originally posted by porky
My post on the other thread:
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
This is WAY off topic, but you are going to have bad owners at EVERY level. dont punish good ones because of it. I dont actually expect them to do that.
As for your agreement with that, you dont get it because you are in a pro leauge. There are teams in my BBB leauge that would toast you. PERIOD. why break them up for the benefit of "the long term"
Toast Me. Who? Maybe you forgot the smily face, but this point is not relevant or even accurate. would agree there are teams in the Pro Leagues that would get "toasted" by several teams in BBB. Does using caps when saying period help?
Maybe you should stick with why your point is correct instead of just attempting to insult someone.
Also just because I don't agree with you and happen to own a Pro League doesn't mean I don't get it. As a player in the BBB I have just as much of a voice as you do. Alot of people haven't agreed with you, what have you decided is their excuse. I have just as many players in BBB and actually enjoy BBB just as much for different reasons. The BBB is a very competitive league and if you bother to look at my posts in this league you will see that I enjoy this league alot.
What you want is not a pyramid type game, however that is how it is set up. The creators of the game made it a pyramid style. If you look at it realistically They are not going to recruit Adrian Peterson to play High School ball. In fact there are rules against this.
The level and salary caps make sense, I can concede that the morale may not be the best idea, because it does penalize someone for choosing to play where they have decided they enjoy.
Finally, If you don't look at the long term effects then this game will eventually become so disorganized it will no longer be enjoyable or understandable.
On side note you should really stick to argueing your point, your statement above this one is a very good point. but the two previous have no validity to your original post. If you want people to support your thoughts you should give your opinion. I think you were just surprised that not everyone in BBB agrees with you.
Unconquered
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I don't think it makes sense. I believe your team is a reflection of certain Owner attributes you possess. For example;
Well use Fairforever. Put together one of the best teams in BBB. He was persistent, made the right connections, and active. Does he not deserve a good team because of his ability?
Now we'll use dortchee who owns the Montana Crows/BBB 12. Why the hell should he be given advantages to compete with top teams because he is a piss poor owner? He looks like he spent maybe 30 minutes recruiting. I think if you're a piss poor owner your piss poor team will reflect your own ability.
Well use Fairforever. Put together one of the best teams in BBB. He was persistent, made the right connections, and active. Does he not deserve a good team because of his ability?
Now we'll use dortchee who owns the Montana Crows/BBB 12. Why the hell should he be given advantages to compete with top teams because he is a piss poor owner? He looks like he spent maybe 30 minutes recruiting. I think if you're a piss poor owner your piss poor team will reflect your own ability.
shield.bearer
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good grief people.
The "cap" would be flexible and constantly moving up.
They plan to base it on "average level of players in the league +x).
that means that by next season most BBB leagues would have a cap around 15, maybe a little higher. And it would only effect FA signings and trades.
Is this really a problem?
The "cap" would be flexible and constantly moving up.
They plan to base it on "average level of players in the league +x).
that means that by next season most BBB leagues would have a cap around 15, maybe a little higher. And it would only effect FA signings and trades.
Is this really a problem?
xeef
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Originally posted by porky
Originally posted by xeef
Originally posted by porky
My post on the other thread:
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
This is WAY off topic, but you are going to have bad owners at EVERY level. dont punish good ones because of it. I dont actually expect them to do that.
As for your agreement with that, you dont get it because you are in a pro leauge. There are teams in my BBB leauge that would toast you. PERIOD. why break them up for the benefit of "the long term"
Toast Me. Who? Maybe you forgot the smily face, but this point is not relevant or even accurate. would agree there are teams in the Pro Leagues that would get "toasted" by several teams in BBB. Does using caps when saying period help?
Maybe you should stick with why your point is correct instead of just attempting to insult someone.
Also just because I don't agree with you and happen to own a Pro League doesn't mean I don't get it. As a player in the BBB I have just as much of a voice as you do. Alot of people haven't agreed with you, what have you decided is their excuse. I have just as many players in BBB and actually enjoy BBB just as much for different reasons. The BBB is a very competitive league and if you bother to look at my posts in this league you will see that I enjoy this league alot.
What you want is not a pyramid type game, however that is how it is set up. The creators of the game made it a pyramid style. If you look at it realistically They are not going to recruit Adrian Peterson to play High School ball. In fact there are rules against this.
The level and salary caps make sense, I can concede that the morale may not be the best idea, because it does penalize someone for choosing to play where they have decided they enjoy.
Finally, If you don't look at the long term effects then this game will eventually become so disorganized it will no longer be enjoyable or understandable.
On side note you should really stick to argueing your point, your statement above this one is a very good point. but the two previous have no validity to your original post. If you want people to support your thoughts you should give your opinion. I think you were just surprised that not everyone in BBB agrees with you.
You are missing fundamental points. The USA pro leauge is never going to be the NFL because owmers (at least 4 a year) will gut their teams. Just like in EVERY leauge. I have lots of points regarding this, so sticking to one doesent make any sense. You assume you understand my point. IM just asking people to get involved.
Originally posted by xeef
Originally posted by porky
My post on the other thread:
Originally posted by xeef
To repeat, status quo is working, you want to prove it, release 20000 teams at once. Youd have them filled up within 5 weeks and need more teams and these arguments will seem silly.
No this is a very bad idea. We already have teams filled with CPU players, which hurts those teams and their legaues, what you are proving is that there are alot of people who want to be owners, it has nothing to do with what bort is talking about or leveling the playing field.
I agree 110% with caps, levels, etc on lower division leagues. We need to think long term. I agree with the above posters we need to allow the lvl cap to be the AVGERAGE and as the game matures and new leagues are added the lvl cap changes accordingly.
This is WAY off topic, but you are going to have bad owners at EVERY level. dont punish good ones because of it. I dont actually expect them to do that.
As for your agreement with that, you dont get it because you are in a pro leauge. There are teams in my BBB leauge that would toast you. PERIOD. why break them up for the benefit of "the long term"
Toast Me. Who? Maybe you forgot the smily face, but this point is not relevant or even accurate. would agree there are teams in the Pro Leagues that would get "toasted" by several teams in BBB. Does using caps when saying period help?
Maybe you should stick with why your point is correct instead of just attempting to insult someone.
Also just because I don't agree with you and happen to own a Pro League doesn't mean I don't get it. As a player in the BBB I have just as much of a voice as you do. Alot of people haven't agreed with you, what have you decided is their excuse. I have just as many players in BBB and actually enjoy BBB just as much for different reasons. The BBB is a very competitive league and if you bother to look at my posts in this league you will see that I enjoy this league alot.
What you want is not a pyramid type game, however that is how it is set up. The creators of the game made it a pyramid style. If you look at it realistically They are not going to recruit Adrian Peterson to play High School ball. In fact there are rules against this.
The level and salary caps make sense, I can concede that the morale may not be the best idea, because it does penalize someone for choosing to play where they have decided they enjoy.
Finally, If you don't look at the long term effects then this game will eventually become so disorganized it will no longer be enjoyable or understandable.
On side note you should really stick to argueing your point, your statement above this one is a very good point. but the two previous have no validity to your original post. If you want people to support your thoughts you should give your opinion. I think you were just surprised that not everyone in BBB agrees with you.
You are missing fundamental points. The USA pro leauge is never going to be the NFL because owmers (at least 4 a year) will gut their teams. Just like in EVERY leauge. I have lots of points regarding this, so sticking to one doesent make any sense. You assume you understand my point. IM just asking people to get involved.
Last edited May 22, 2008 08:00:16
Shagrat
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I think the average for the league as a level cap would be too low... I don't have a problem with level 15 and 16s in the BBB right now.. 18-20 is pushing it and I personally wouldn't have joined a league (even if I owned the player and the team) if I thought it would cause an unfair advantage. A lot of the people that had higher level players and moved them to the BBB to be on their team got an extra advantage in recruiting power also since people would want to be on a team with the ringers. It's pretty lame if you ask me, but I'm not complaining.
The problem is going to come in the next couple of seasons when the level deviations start to get higher and higher. There needs to be somewhere newer players and team owners can play and do well where they don't have to worry about some douche bringing in lv 20 QBs and WRs and blowing out every team 120-0.
I don't think a level cap is really needed in the BBB. If anything they should just start focusing on capping new leagues. If they do put cap on I think it should be much higher than the avg. level and it definitely should not hurt morale or chemistry if one team is better than another. If anything up the amount of teams that move up and down leagues to 4 instead of 2.
The problem is going to come in the next couple of seasons when the level deviations start to get higher and higher. There needs to be somewhere newer players and team owners can play and do well where they don't have to worry about some douche bringing in lv 20 QBs and WRs and blowing out every team 120-0.
I don't think a level cap is really needed in the BBB. If anything they should just start focusing on capping new leagues. If they do put cap on I think it should be much higher than the avg. level and it definitely should not hurt morale or chemistry if one team is better than another. If anything up the amount of teams that move up and down leagues to 4 instead of 2.
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